Author Topic: Light Sport Legal Operations?  (Read 1496 times)

rludtke

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Light Sport Legal Operations?
« on: Jun 03, 2017 »
Hi Folks,
I am new to the Sonerai.net community, but have been interested in the Sonerai II for a long while. Originally I didn't think the SII qualified for LSA operations by rule, as the landing speed was slightly to high. But reading some recent posts suggests that folks are operating the SII under LSA rules somehow.
This interests me greatly, as it would get me back into the air while I work on getting a medical variance in pursuit of the basic med requirements, which I anticipate could take a while.
Please clarify: Can the SII operate under LSA rules in its normal configuration, or does it require changes, such as gross weight limitation to meet the landing speed requirement, or, ??
Could I purchase an SII and immediately begin flying with no current medical?

Thanks,
Thanks,
Rick

Kevin R.

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Re: Light Sport Legal Operations?
« Reply #1 on: Jun 03, 2017 »
BasicMed is the way to go.

I'm operating under a recently obtained BasicMed.  There is no such thing as a "BasicMed Variance".

BasicMed requires a very, very basic physical exam by a NON-AME, just a state license medical practitioner.  If you Google basicmed you can see the doctors checklist of what he is going to check off.  Generally speaking if you can safely drive a car and hold a drivers license you can fly under basicmed.  Barring a few heart issues and mental disorders.

Kevin
« Last Edit: Jun 03, 2017 by Kevin R. »

Kevin R.

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Re: Light Sport Legal Operations?
« Reply #2 on: Jun 03, 2017 »
Furthermore ref. basicmed.  If you run into a doctor that doesn't want to play ball take your money to another one.  Point is there is no failing the physical here because there is nothing reported to the FAA except your doctor's state license number and that is only done by you when you successfully complete the physical and computer course.  NOTHING is sent to the feds by your local general practitioner whether you pass or fail the exam or not!  You walk out with the paperwork you brought in.

Kevin R.

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Re: Light Sport Legal Operations?
« Reply #3 on: Jun 03, 2017 »
In most cases the Sonerais will exceed the specified cruise speed of 120 kts. at max continuous thrust for light sport operations... I know that in some cases pilots have opted to "derate" their engines to technically limit the speed ref. above to less than 120kts.

kevin

rludtke

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Re: Light Sport Legal Operations?
« Reply #4 on: Jun 03, 2017 »
Furthermore ref. basicmed.  If you run into a doctor that doesn't want to play ball take your money to another one.  Point is there is no failing the physical here because there is nothing reported to the FAA except your doctor's state license number and that is only done by you when you successfully complete the physical and computer course.  NOTHING is sent to the feds by your local general practitioner whether you pass or fail the exam or not!  You walk out with the paperwork you brought in.

Thanks Kevin. But remember, you must have had a medical within the last 10 years. My last medical is older than that. so I require a (unfortunately I have forgotten the terminology) the equivalent of an FAA waiver to the medical requirements. I expect this process to take a while.
Thanks,
Rick

Kevin R.

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Re: Light Sport Legal Operations?
« Reply #5 on: Jun 03, 2017 »
My apologies.  You are right about the 10 year clause.  You will have to obtain a special issuance one time third class medical.  Then after that go basic med.

Kevin

Tom H

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Re: Light Sport Legal Operations?
« Reply #6 on: Jun 04, 2017 »
I have heard others refer to a "10 year" clause, but I don't think that is the actual requirement.  I just looked at the BasicMed requirements that I had stored, and it includes the following:

++++++++++
SECTION 2 – Information to be completed by the Airman
To operate an aircraft under BasicMed, you may only use this checklist to comply with 14 CFR 61.113(i) if you:

Hold or have held a valid first-, second-, or third-class medical certificate issued by the FAA at
any time after July 14, 2006; and

The most recent medical certificate held (including an authorization for a special issuance
certificate) must have not been denied, suspended, revoked, or withdrawn.
+++++++++++

My interpretation is that if the medical that you held expired any time after 7/14/06, then you meet the time requirements of Basic Med.

I don't see any other time-based requirement, unless the final issuance of BasicMed added one.

Tom H

Kevin R.

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Re: Light Sport Legal Operations?
« Reply #7 on: Jun 04, 2017 »
You must have held a valid FAA Medical Certificate in the last ten years...if not then you must acquire one i.e. a third class physical prior to going basicmed.

New student pilots must also initially acquire a third class medical and after it expires can go basicmed.

Kevin

wbpace

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Re: Light Sport Legal Operations?
« Reply #8 on: Jun 04, 2017 »
Welcome to the group, Rick, we love it when new folks join.

There does seem to be some confusion about the "ten year" thing.  It is not a rule, per se.  What the law (FAA Extension, Safety, Security Act of 2016) says is that you must have held a valid medical within 10 years of the date it was enacted.  President Obama signed the law on July 15, 2016, so if you had a valid medical on July 15, 2006 or later, you can use BasicMed.

From a practical perspective, that means if you got your Third Class medical on or after July 1, 2004 (which would have expired on  July 31, 2006), you can use Basic Med right now.  That date will be as true 5 years from now as it is today, if you chose to wait that long before seeing your family doctor to renew via BasicMed.  If your last medical preceded that date, you have to first pass your usual Third Class exam, then BasicMed will take over until the day they eventually plant you.

Depending upon your circumstances, it sounds like you need a "special issuance".  I presume your AME has already discussed this with you, but for everyone else, that means for some of those special conditions, you can get your medical now, and Oklahoma will ask for additional information if they want it (ask me how I know).  For a tiny subset (like heart and psychological issues, I think), your AME will not be able to approve you immediately and will send your file to Oklahoma for further review.  But once you pass that and get approved, the BasicMed rule will take over from that point on.

O'Bill

Pttim

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Re: Light Sport Legal Operations?
« Reply #9 on: Jun 06, 2017 »
Back to the LSA requirement.  I honestly don't think you can get a Sonerai 2 to land at 52mph.   Mine stalls at 65mph &  900lb  625 empty weight.  I've tried multiple approaches to get the landing speed down, and end up tail hooking at anything less than 65mph.  Its less traumatic to just fly it over the numbers at 80-85  and let it sink to a smooth touchdown.  For me anyway.
« Last Edit: Jun 06, 2017 by Pttim »
Pttim
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Raceair

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Re: Light Sport Legal Operations?
« Reply #10 on: Jun 06, 2017 »
Good points,  Tim....I have never believed that any of the Sonerai models were Light sport as far as stall speed...

Pttim

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Re: Light Sport Legal Operations?
« Reply #11 on: Jun 06, 2017 »
Sonex might be a better choice, nearly the same performance minus the looks but better landing and stall speed with flaps.
Pttim
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N127PZ

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Re: Light Sport Legal Operations?
« Reply #12 on: Jun 17, 2017 »
...Or Thatcher CX4.  ;)
http://www.thatchercx4.com/
Prayer does not use up artificial energy, doesn't burn up any fossil fuel, doesn't pollute. Neither does song, neither does love, neither does the dance.
Margaret Mead

dcstrng

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Re: Light Sport Legal Operations?
« Reply #13 on: Jun 18, 2017 »
I had originally thought to fly my Sonerai project in LSA; but it is a world of fact and fiction... I don't know about the Sonerai I, but I'm not aware of any of the Sonerai II's with a "listed" stall above LSA speeds (which must be clean, ability with flaps don't help).  Notwithstanding, based on wing size the stall of even the lighter builds doesn't calculate at the 51mph speed with my weight factored in (ate up with corpulency ).  But I wasn't worried about this since John had always listed the stall speed under that... and no more official Sonerai plans are likely to be forthcoming...  My primary concern was speed at max-sustained-power, which for my engine was unlikely to be believable (was a 100hp Corvair -- which meant that my empty weight was gong to be closer to 700# than 520#), then along came the Carbon Cub and later the Just SuperSTOL  with 180hp and it seemed to me that LSA compliance is whatever the builder says it is -- about the only thing that can be documented on the ground is the likely gross weight... Some have discussed Sonerai landing speeds, but since the AOA on the ground is below stall AOA (or so I've come to believe), the landing speed won't necessarily equate to actual stall... In any case, it is speculative now as my project went to a new home -- I think the LSA Sonerai is more substantiateble legal fiction than aerodynamic fact, but...
-- Larry

rludtke

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Re: Light Sport Legal Operations?
« Reply #14 on: Aug 22, 2017 »
-- I think the LSA Sonerai is more substantiateble legal fiction than aerodynamic fact, but...
To be honest, this is all I really care about- what can be reasonably qualified as an LSA from a paperwork perspective. Actual performance be $&^%ed. It seems to me that an un-calibrated pitot system could easily indicate 5 mph off or more at landing speeds, suggesting that the designer's published specifications would need to be accepted by the regulatory agency. I was wondering if anyone had successfully tried this before with the Sonerai II.
Thanks,
Rick

 

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