Author Topic: Rotax 582  (Read 1567 times)

GmoneyMacFresh

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Rotax 582
« on: Sep 08, 2017 »
Does anyone have any experience with having a 582 on their plane? 

Thanx

GmoneyMacFresh

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #1 on: Sep 10, 2017 »
61 views and zero replies.. sounds like I may be pioneering something here.

Manu

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #2 on: Sep 11, 2017 »
No first hand experience and don't want to spread rumors i heard.
If you want to know about the engine, have a look with the ultra light world and some motorized gliders with retractable engine/prop. You need recent stories, not 20 years old.
You can also find other 2 stroke engine in the 100hp range: hirth...
Emmanuel

GmoneyMacFresh

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #3 on: Sep 11, 2017 »
I'm part of our local ultralight and recreational flying club.  A lot of guys love the Rotax 912, but most started on the 582 and the 912 being much more expensive seems to be an "upgrade" option for them. 

N127PZ

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #4 on: Sep 12, 2017 »
There are 912 Rotax to be sure. See world record holder Robin Austin in AU. http://www.worldrecordplane.com/gallery .

Ed Fisher would be your go to guy here. He once had a very cool plane called the "Lil' Bit" that sported a 582. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raceair_Lil_Bitts 
Prayer does not use up artificial energy, doesn't burn up any fossil fuel, doesn't pollute. Neither does song, neither does love, neither does the dance.
Margaret Mead

Soneraifred

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #5 on: Sep 12, 2017 »
There was one Sonerai IILTS (N6378U) that I'm aware of that was built and flown with a Rotax 582.  It was built by Vince Nicely from Kingsport, TN.  It had a 2.62:1 gearbox and a 62" Warp Drive two-blade prop.  The weight and balance worked out so that the airplane could be soloed from the front seat.  Vince wrote a nice article about it in the July-Aug-Sept 2002 issue of the Sonerai Newsletter.
Fred Keip
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Sonerai Newsletter Editor-Retired
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Smokyray

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #6 on: Sep 13, 2017 »
GM,
I flew a R-582 Pulsar TD that shared my hangar for several years. Lots of power and torque for the weight and amazingly light. Took a a few flights to get used to the 2-Stroke sound and RPM but being a former motocross racer, it's like a flying dirt bike!
 The Pulsar had the "Blue Head" mod (vs Grey Head) which is preferred as the Blue head has a Thermostat installed to help prevent cold seizures. It's available for the grey head. The second big improvement was the Ceramic water pump seal mod. The grey heads were notorious for that seal leaking which would mix RV fluid with coolant. There are lots of people out there machining the block to accept the new seal. I've heard there also differences in the Crank size between the two but I am not positive of that.

The Pulsar had 2200 documented hours on that engine and 20 plus years of flying last I heard from him. Speaks well of the design...

http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_engines/rotax_582ULs.htm

V/R
Smokey
« Last Edit: Sep 13, 2017 by Smokyray »

GmoneyMacFresh

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #7 on: Dec 18, 2017 »
Does anyone know the weight of the stock 2100cc vw engine that looks like most of you fly with?  I spoke with a couple of the ultralight guys and they said for my altitude the rotax is going to be the better option for prop size and power.  Be it I might lose a bit of top end speed.  The guy selling it to me said that was the reason he had the 582 to start with..  He wouldn't consider flying it with the vw engine..   Also spoke with an AME and he said the best thing to do would be to match the weight of the vw by making my engine mounts as heavy as needed and keep the battery up front etc to match the vw weight..  Keeping me from being tail heavy

Smokyray

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #8 on: Dec 18, 2017 »
GM,
All of the weight numbers are posted on the Great Plains website.
http://www.greatplainsas.com/specsfd.html

 I spent several months last year removing the original power-plant and lightening the air-frame on 994SP. Being a Sonerai newbie and having previously built and flown 2 RV's, I spent quite a bit of time studying the plans, flight data and talking to previous builder/pilots including the designer himself, Mr. Monnett. My goal was improved performance through weight reduction and and installing a stronger, more efficient, lighter engine.

My original GP2180 weighed 164 lbs with a flywheel, no starter, slick mag, Diehl case and Electronic Ignition/Ellison TBI. It had the Force One Prop Hub/crank from GP. I replaced it with a custom/ professionally built GP1835 weighing 143lbs ready to install including the 2180's Diehl case, no flywheel or starter, Slick 4316, Zenith Carb, Sterba prop. New Empty Weight: 557lbs. CG calculations and test flights showed my calculations were correct and performance exceeded my expectations.

The Rotax 582 should exceed all those requirements.
Hope that helps.

V/R
Smokey

PS: As far as the reliability of the VW, a well built engine properly cared for and operated within design limits should give reliable service and economy at a very affordable price. One could argue that the Rotax 582 is no exception as it's a modified Snowmobile engine. The Sauer aircraft engine in Germany is a highly developed VW derivative that is actually certified in Europe.



« Last Edit: Dec 18, 2017 by Smokyray »

kennyw

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #9 on: Dec 18, 2017 »
GM,
All of the weight numbers are posted on the Great Plains website.
http://www.greatplainsas.com/specsfd.html

 I spent several months last year removing the original power-plant and lightening the air-frame on 994SP. Being a Sonerai newbie and having previously built and flown 2 RV's, I spent quite a bit of time studying the plans, flight data and talking to previous builder/pilots including the designer himself, Mr. Monnett. My goal was improved performance through weight reduction and and installing a stronger, more efficient, lighter engine.

My original GP2180 weighed 164 lbs with a flywheel, no starter, slick mag, Diehl case and Electronic Ignition/Ellison TBI. It had the Force One Prop Hub/crank from GP. I replaced it with a custom/ professionally built GP1835 weighing 143lbs ready to install including the 2180's Diehl case, no flywheel or starter, Slick 4316, Zenith Carb, Sterba prop. New Empty Weight: 557lbs. CG calculations and test flights showed my calculations were correct and performance exceeded my expectations.

The Rotax 582 should exceed all those requirements.
Hope that helps.

V/R
Smokey

PS: As far as the reliability of the VW, a well built engine properly cared for and operated within design limits should give reliable service and economy at a very affordable price. One could argue that the Rotax 582 is no exception as it's a modified Snowmobile engine. The Sauer aircraft engine in Germany is a highly developed VW derivative that is actually certified in Europe.



GM,

I gotta tell you, nearly the same power (arguably the same power) at 20lbs less weight up on the nose (and a heck of a lot less $$$) makes a BIG difference.  SmokyRay's setup is THE way to go in my opinion. 

Ken
« Last Edit: Dec 18, 2017 by kennyw »

GmoneyMacFresh

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #10 on: Dec 18, 2017 »
Kennyw - did you mean the 1800cc is the way to go?

kennyw

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #11 on: Dec 18, 2017 »
Kennyw - did you mean the 1800cc is the way to go?

The 1835, balanced and blueprinted, Dhiel accessory case, Slick Magneto, no flywheel, no starter, Zenith carb, Sterba prop= 143lbs installed weight and about 60+hp WOT.

When I advance the throttle for take off, that little VW engine just roars.  The torque pull is quite noticeable.  And, almost every time I taxi in, some one asks what kind of engine I have.  When I tell them, they just can't seem to believe it.  I've had so many compliments on this little airplane.  It generates a lot of interest where ever I go.
« Last Edit: Dec 18, 2017 by kennyw »

Chucker

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #12 on: Dec 19, 2017 »
I fully support the “lighter is better” theory.  My goal is to keep my dry weight under 500 lbs.  To that end, I am planning on installing NiCom cylinders from Scott Casler at Hummel Engines here in AZ.  They are ten pounds lighter than cast iron!  I am shooting for a 137# engine.  No electrical.  No flywheel.  No starter.  No battery.  Nothing but engine, Revflow, and Bendix dual magneto.

Here is my question:  The big difference between the 1835 and the longer-stroked 2180 engines is the heavier Force One crankshaft.  However, if you compare the two engines at the GPASC link Smokey provided, the difference is 1.5 pounds for a 10 hp increase. That is 16.7% more ponies for a dry weight gain of .3% in a machine weighing 500 lbs.  Why sacrifice the power when it was really the accessories causing all the extra weight?

Scott advertises a 2400cc 137# engine that delivers 85 hp.  Blueprint that engine and keep your airframe light and you could have a tiger by the tail!

https://www.hummelengines.com/engines-specifications

Having said that, if your mission does not include breaking the sound barrier or setting a new time-to-climb record, I think that Smokey’s (now Kenny’s) engine is the perfect fit for our little machines!  Light, smooth, efficient, dependable, and affordable. What more could you want?

All the best,
Chucker





juergen

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #13 on: Dec 20, 2017 »
Hi Cucker,
the force One crankshaft is the better option, because it give more saftey for crank crack, this was also my intention to take the force one.

2180 or 2400cc : the only option for volume is : MORE volume  ;D

with best regards
Juergen

Smokyray

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #14 on: Dec 20, 2017 »
Juergen,
True statement, if you stroke the crannkshaft (greater than 1915CC).
The late Steve Bennett (founder of Great Plains)wrote a great article about VW crankshaft failures he has seen in 40+ years of flying them. He stated he had never seen a failure of the 69MM VW standard crankshaft on a 1700-1915 or on a Force one equipped engine (2100 or greater)


994SP has a 69mm VW crank. There are numerous articles out there touting one mod or another to produce more HP from what was originally a 40HP engine. However comma, everything comes at a price and heat stress, longevity and exceeding design limits lean me toward a standard VW crank, (less than 1915CC) rods and compression.

Reliability and longevity.

V/R
Smokey

 

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