Author Topic: Rotax 582  (Read 1541 times)

kennyw

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #15 on: Dec 20, 2017 »
I kinda wonder, if you go with the 2180cc/Force One Crank, without the flywheel, starter and adequate battery, how hard is it going to be to get that engine started by hand?  Anyone out there got this set up? Carb or FI?

Also, with this setup, how much effort did you have to put into balancing the rotating mass components?

Mytonic

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #16 on: Dec 20, 2017 »
Watch Splischke video of Scott propping his 2180. I had a 2275 years ago with electronic Ign., Monnett 15 amp alt, posa carb and hand propped easily

eschrom

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #17 on: Dec 20, 2017 »
Both my 2180 and 2276, neither of which has a flywheel, start on the second flip when they're warm. Cold can be a different story depending on ... what, I'm not exactly sure. Probably my priming procedure isn't dialed in yet. Whatever it is, some days I gotta swing the dead cat just so.

The only balancing I did was a static balance of the prop, with corrections being made with extra washers on some of the prop bolts. It works pretty well.

Ed

juergen

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #18 on: Dec 20, 2017 »
Hi Kenny,
have a look at this two videos...
2180 engine, posa carb, magnet ignition, no starter, no generator..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKC4y8gtUU0&list=UUFkmVryLfYp-ejvAovgkgJg&index=14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSU9tt973K0


with best regards
Juergen

Chucker

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #19 on: Dec 20, 2017 »
Hi Cucker,
the force One crankshaft is the better option, because it give more saftey for crank crack, this was also my intention to take the force one.

2180 or 2400cc : the only option for volume is : MORE volume  ;D

with best regards
Juergen

Hi Juergen,

I agree.  The Revmaster crank is also built to withstand The higher outputs of stroked cranks. If I read the GPASC chart correctly, the weight penalty is only 1.5 pounds. The increased safety margin is significant.

I’m also with Smokey. Aircraft can only do what they are designed to do.  If you have a mission that requires 60 hp then build an engine that produces 60 hp.  More is not always better and the stock VW crankshaft will (according to Steve Bennet et al.) do that job with excellent reliability.

I am another camp.  I want to climb fast, go fast, and make lots of noise.  I am sticking with my Revmaster 78mm crank because....well....that is what I have.  I am spending $$$ on NiCom cylinders because lighter is better.  Perhaps I will build a 2400 someday...

Maybe you and I can fly formation together....someday!

All the best,
Chucker

Chucker

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #20 on: Dec 20, 2017 »
OBTW,

I will be flying from a high altitude airport... 5000’ MSL. I am setting my compression ratio around 8.5:1.  The original 2100D was set at 9.4:1.  They were trying to win the CAFE economy award in the KR2.  I think that 8.5 is a good compromise.

mhflyit

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #21 on: Dec 20, 2017 »
FWIW - Last Saturday
2276 SB built engine
138mph indicated
3400 RPM - WOT
OAT 70 degs
2500ft
Empty weight - 594lbs
TO weight - 870lbs
Initial climb - close to 900ft/min
50/50 Ed Sterba prop
Still no wheel pants!!!!!!

Also...
3250 rpm
MP 25
130mph
Same alt/temp/weights
Average fuel burn over 1.25hrs - 4gph

« Last Edit: Dec 20, 2017 by mhflyit »
Matt

Smokyray

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #22 on: Dec 27, 2017 »
Ken/MT,
Scott's original 2180 (before I removed it) had an Ellison TBI 8.5:1 comp Slick Mag/EI and manual primer to the intake tube downstream from the cylinders. The Slick 4316 with impulse coupling is the key to easy hand propping. I normally started it with the EI off. Once started I turned the EI and ALT ON. Yes, the 2180 started easily and even my Lycoming 0-360 in my RVX with a Carb, P-Mag and Electroair EI (Dual electronic 8.5:1 comp) hand props fairly easily.

Interestingly enough, the blueprinted GP1835+ I replaced in 994SP has a single Slick 4316 with a choke equipped (removed primer to save weight) Zenith Carb, 7.5:1 comp, cooling plenum. It starts just as easily and the aircraft performs nearly identically in speed and climb with the purported 14 less ponies galloping out front. I'm convinced there isn't a huge difference from the stroked (1915CC+) to the standard crank (VW69mm) HP/torque curve as much as in higher displacement engines.

The key to performance IMHO as I've previously over-emphasized is weight reduction.
V/R
Smokey

PS: Scott's 2180 lives on in a Corby Starlet with all new internal parts/nikasil cylinders 8.5:1/single Slick 4316, GP "X" case engine mount (no electrical system).
« Last Edit: Dec 27, 2017 by Smokyray »

Kevin R.

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #23 on: Dec 27, 2017 »
Okay Smokey, inquiring minds want to know!  What is an RVX?

Kevin

Smokyray

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #24 on: Dec 27, 2017 »
Kevin,
Good question! Many years ago I purchased an RV4 project from Cornerstone Ministries that languished in the rafters of my RV friend Arvils shop. When I returned from Iraq in 2003 he asked if I had plans for it. I was flying my RV4 I built but wanted to build a fastback RV4 or Harmon Rocket. Arvil had a new RV6 fuselage he wanted to sell and asked if I wanted to build an airplane from the parts. My Dad also wanted to "partner up" and the rest as they say is history.
 From a distance it looks like an RV6 but a discerning "RV eye" can tell its different. The RV4 wings and  tail are smaller (15% less VS and HS area 1 ft less WS) as well as lighter than most RV6"s. (945lbs) Additionally it has a "non standard" engine, a Lycoming 0-360J2A I removed from a damaged Robinson R22. Catto composite prop and a few clean up mods provide stellar performance. I normally plan 170-175KTAS at 9500".

Not bad for a collection of parts!  ;D
V/R
Smokey

« Last Edit: Dec 27, 2017 by Smokyray »

Kevin R.

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #25 on: Dec 27, 2017 »
Very cool.  I have my second built RV-6A and am starting on a Panther.

But, I love flying the Sonerai I and going nowhere!

Kevin

Smokyray

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #26 on: Dec 27, 2017 »
Agreed, I really miss 994SP as well.
Maybe someday Kenny will get tired of it!.... 8)
V/R
Smokey

kennyw

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #27 on: Dec 27, 2017 »
Agreed, I really miss 994SP as well.
Maybe someday Kenny will get tired of it!.... 8)
V/R
Smokey

I've gotta finish that RV-8 first.  Besides, I thought you were gonna build a S-1!

N127PZ

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #28 on: Jan 13, 2018 »
SmokyRay, you have probably answered this before but I missed it. What is it to "blueprint" the VW engine?
Prayer does not use up artificial energy, doesn't burn up any fossil fuel, doesn't pollute. Neither does song, neither does love, neither does the dance.
Margaret Mead

Smokyray

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Re: Rotax 582
« Reply #29 on: Jan 14, 2018 »
"Blueprinting" was a term coined by early auto racers when they would disassemble an engine and reassemble it after carefully balancing, weighing and fine-tuning every single piece of the engine meticulously making the engine like the designer "blueprint". In the case of the 1835 in 994SP, the engine builder ("T.S.") did exactly that.

Here is the short list of "blueprinting" an 1835:

Great Plains 1835cc Engine Kit (92mm bore X 69mm stroke) Diehl Case. Slick #4316 Magneto and Harness
 Zenith #1821 Carb with cockpit adjustable mixture control
. Forged 69mm VW crankshaft ground to .010" under-size and balanced to 1/100th of a gram by Gene Berg Enterprises. 
Piston and Rod set matched to closer than 1/10th of a gram. 
Mahle 92mm Cylinder and Piston set with Teflon wrist pin buttons
,Total Seal compression ring on each piston 2nd ring (prevents blow-by, keeps oil cooler and cleaner) 
3-Angle valve job and matched valve springs by Fumio Fukaya (Best VW cylinder head man on the planet)
 Manley Stainless Steel valves
, 4130 steel push-rods (each matched for perfect rocker arm geometry) Gene Berg Rocker Shafts (with shims instead of spring clips)
Laser hardened valve adjusting screws. 
Blueprinted oil pump 
Rev-master Fuel Pump Drive Adapter (driven off oil pump)
Full Flow oil filter
. Compression set at 7.0-1 (60HP) Over-Sized engine case nuts and washers (VW racers have found this doubles case life) Hence "Ultimate" 1835


V/R
Smokey

« Last Edit: Jan 14, 2018 by Smokyray »

 

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