Author Topic: Viking 130 in a Sonerai?  (Read 546 times)

GmoneyMacFresh

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Viking 130 in a Sonerai?
« on: Oct 04, 2017 »
After the success of my Rotax 582 thread (lol) I've been watching a lot of videos on youtube about the Viking 130 engine.  I'm an automotive tech who works at Honda and can get my hands on all the honda parts and could rebuild myself one of these engines pretty affordably.  I wonder if it would be to heavy? website says 220lbs.

https://www.vikingaircraftengines.com/performance.html

--Scott
« Last Edit: Oct 04, 2017 by GmoneyMacFresh »

Raceair

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Re: Viking 130 in a Sonerai?
« Reply #1 on: Oct 04, 2017 »
VW engines, converted weigh between 155 and 180 pounds.....

GmoneyMacFresh

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Re: Viking 130 in a Sonerai?
« Reply #2 on: Oct 12, 2017 »
so not a huge difference to be worried about

Raceair

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Re: Viking 130 in a Sonerai?
« Reply #3 on: Oct 12, 2017 »
Well, actually I think 40 or 50 extra pounds on the nose of a Sonerai IS something to worry about....

Kevin R.

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Re: Viking 130 in a Sonerai?
« Reply #4 on: Oct 12, 2017 »
It is a huge difference to worry about.

GmoneyMacFresh

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Re: Viking 130 in a Sonerai?
« Reply #5 on: Oct 12, 2017 »
 ;D I'm new to this! That's why I'm asking!

mhflyit

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Re: Viking 130 in a Sonerai?
« Reply #6 on: Oct 12, 2017 »
It can be deadly modifying a design or trying an unproven power-plant/air-frame combination without experience.
However, with the proper support network like an EAA chapter, this forum, books, training and online content etc great things can be achieved and boundaries pushed.
Which EAA Chapter are you a member of and do they have a good support network?
Matt

GmoneyMacFresh

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Re: Viking 130 in a Sonerai?
« Reply #7 on: Oct 12, 2017 »
I'm located in Calgary Alberta Canada.   I'm not 100 percent sure about the EAA chapter here or in the area.  I hear they run builder workshops that are very well done near me.  I'll have to look into it more.  I have a pretty cool book I'm  going to make into a pdf and upload for ppl that talks about weight and balance. 

dcstrng

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Re: Viking 130 in a Sonerai?
« Reply #8 on: Oct 13, 2017 »
The W&B math to accommodate one engine (weight) or another is pretty basic, but the accompanying engineering may not be.  One of the reasons I reluctantly let my Sonerai project go was the 100hp engine I had was about 230# (actually 229# wet, sans exhaust) and I could see the vicious cycle that took a lightweight, simple bird of mid-500# design weight up into the 700# range, and that was before I loaded my corpulent self into it.   It has been done of course with other engines, but I now think what I should have done is simply hung the airframe in the rafters until I scored a bare-bones VW to power it.  ???
« Last Edit: Oct 13, 2017 by dcstrng »
-- Larry

Smokyray

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Re: Viking 130 in a Sonerai?
« Reply #9 on: Oct 14, 2017 »
Scott,
During the extensive post-purchase inspection of Scott P”s masterpiece S2L (pictured above) I decided to set the Monett prototype as a guide. After chatting with John at SNF 2017; He reiteraated how critical additional weight on the nose of a Sonerai can be.
Rather than add GW, reduce useful load and increase complexity, my goal was to reduce weight, increase reliability, dial in the CG and improve performance. I began by removing the ailing, 164 lb GP 2180 in lieu of a much lighter (140lb) blueprinted GP1835. An additional 12 lbs of unneeded stuff in the bin resulted in a 557lb  EW. The first flight post weight loss proved the genius of the design. Ed Sterba built a prop that produces performance equal to its higher HP previous livery and it flies in a word, delightfully.
The new owner (Ken) echoes the sentiment...

Lighter airplanes simply fly better.... ;D
V/R
Smokey
« Last Edit: Oct 14, 2017 by Smokyray »

Raceair

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Re: Viking 130 in a Sonerai?
« Reply #10 on: Oct 14, 2017 »
Our first Sonerai was the original classic design, mid wing , taildragger,   and elliptical tail.   It had a 1700 c.c. Monnett conversion, and weighed 517 empty..
     That is very light,   My Sonerai 1, 'Blueberry' originally weighed 514!    Anyway,  I weighed 190,  and my wife 110.  No problem flying it with the 1700 engine.    Weight is the enemy for sure... 

N127PZ

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Re: Viking 130 in a Sonerai?
« Reply #11 on: Oct 14, 2017 »
The W&B math to accommodate one engine (weight) or another is pretty basic, but the accompanying engineering may not be.  One of the reasons I reluctantly let my Sonerai project go was the 100hp engine I had was about 230# (actually 229# wet, sans exhaust) and I could see the vicious cycle that took a lightweight, simple bird of mid-500# design weight up into the 700# range, and that was before I loaded my corpulent self into it.   It has been done of course with other engines, but I now think what I should have done is simply hung the airframe in the rafters until I scored a bare-bones VW to power it. ???

phzabriskie owner of "bare-bones VW" zero-time 1700cc willing to sell with or without S-IIL single-seat project.
Prayer does not use up artificial energy, doesn't burn up any fossil fuel, doesn't pollute. Neither does song, neither does love, neither does the dance.
Margaret Mead

dcstrng

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Re: Viking 130 in a Sonerai?
« Reply #12 on: Oct 14, 2017 »


owner of "bare-bones VW" zero-time 1700cc willing to sell

Believe me -- I've seen your "for-sale' notes and been sorely tempted... but don't dare.  At one point I had parts of four "plane" projects in the shop, as well as a boat and Harley and got nothing done (even though spending buckets of time there).  Took a year or so to sell off the Buttercup, and miscellaneous stuff and thought I'd found a buyer who would take all the Sonerai parts and get her into the air.  I'm hoping to hang the engine on my Cougar-wind  in a couple of months -- like I said; woulda-coulda-shoulda... but I am where I am...
-- Larry

elkosonerai

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Re: Viking 130 in a Sonerai?
« Reply #13 on: Oct 15, 2017 »
What are the details on your Cougar/ Wind?
I have a very early Nesmith Cougar with an O-290

dcstrng

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Re: Viking 130 in a Sonerai?
« Reply #14 on: Oct 15, 2017 »
My salvage Cougar fuselage is of 1970s vintage -- originally O290 powered... Now landing gear is Tailwind-esque (but firewall rather than MM attached).  Bill Clapp Corvair power (the 100hp engine I'd originally thought to use in my Sonerai).  Culver prop, Callbie Wood aluminum Tailwind wings with extended Stojneck tips  and flaps out to about 125 sq.ft. area.  Working on wings and header tank now.  Friend built the motor mount so, other than cover I'm about at the 90% acquired, 90% to go stage... the largest part of the parts are in the shop, but mostly in boxes... building light, light and rudimentary VFR instruments so with reduced power, increased wing-area it'll probably perform more to the Buttercup (LSA) specifications -- I hope.  Computer says I should just make stall speed at 1250# gross, but if I have to I'll use VGs for an honest LSA stall (bit of a profanity on a Wittman foil, so hope I don't have to).

Sorry for the thread-creep...
-- Larry

 

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