Author Topic: sonerai flying qualities  (Read 13975 times)

Airskip.2010

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Re: sonerai flying qualities
« Reply #30 on: Dec 22, 2010 »
Dave,

First off, all planes are gonna be a little different in handling, but with a laminar flow wing, 18 and change, wingspan, and a 60+/- stall, I am only gonna do 70 at plenty of altitude, unless I am over the runway.  In my opinion, not knowing the airplane, I will not do that in the pattern or at low altitude.  Altitude is insurance.  I lost some friends from here in Houston from a Stall/Spin/Crash, in Bryan, Texas and they were in a Rans S-7.

I'm gonna lean towards 80 to 90 over the fence, and go from there.

And, yes, I do have my plane.  60 hours in a truck for 5 days.  "There and Back Again".  Just been breaking in engine and adjusting carb. Gettn ready for Spring.

Skip

 

Bil438

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Re: sonerai flying qualities
« Reply #31 on: Dec 25, 2010 »
Tim, Gaston et al,
My EAA flight advisor has flown several Sonerai's, perhaps 4, including an S-1. The other SII in the area is built around a 150 lb pilot. There is no getting in it beyond 170 lbs or 5'8".
Anyway... my advisor has never said that my SII is radically hotter or much more unstable than the others. I know the guy who stalled/spun in his stock SII say 30 years ago. In a word Pilot error was the cause.
I don't believe it's an error to let pilots know that Sonerai's are not entry level taildraggers. The recent spike in homebuilt accidents seems to bear witness. Too many pilots are having too many accidents.
Nearly all of us (Tim) operate as though an accident cannot and will not happen. My 35 years in aviation says accidents can and do happen. Flying is for people who are more careful. There are no old bold pilots.
I take an hour to DI my aircraft. If the weather goes south, I drive home.
Bill

thomefran

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Re: sonerai flying qualities
« Reply #32 on: Dec 25, 2010 »
Skip, Bill

Good advice.  It is true that most of us don't think these accidents will happen to us.  I personally fly a gyro and airplane (SIILT).  I fly as tho my life depended on it.  It does.  The only thing that I don't like about my Sonerai is that there isn't any flaps.  The 80ish speed bothered me at first.  If any thing goes south that is a lot of speed in a tube and cloth aircraft.

Happy holidays to all.
Thom Francis
Sonerai II LT
N42HL

Regret is valid only when you are too old to correct it.

Gaston

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Re: sonerai flying qualities
« Reply #33 on: Dec 25, 2010 »
Bill
I never said your Sonerai was much hotter than other S2,YOU said it...
You once wrote that at some point, you needed full rudder to keep her Flying.
You also noted that one or more guys that flew her wouldn't fly her again...

there is a considerable margin between Mine and yours .I never said it was a beginner's plane, far from that...
the fact that it's not a beginner's plane is not related to the plane but to the pilot...

I just think that you're writings are much scary for the newcomer, a common S2
is much more user friendly that what you describe...

your EAA advisor who may or may not be a very good pilot, as per your saying flew 4 Sonerai ...a S1 which is more sporty than the S2 and maybe a little hot for this advisor, another S2 that One can hardly sit in ,makes me think this one is a little far from the plan in it's building ,another one , and yours .
This is enough for you to believe his sayings that yours is not that bad ,when all other sonerai.net members realise,and report, how hot you describe it to be...
my opinion ,is that it is not representative of the average S2,and strangely,
this highly modified sample is the only one relying on a ventral fin for stability.


a friend of mine who has hundreds of hours in a Extra 300 flew with me many times and he said he found it to be extremely responsive,light,and easily overcontrolled, he never said it was vicious or scary for as much...


finally, Bill ,I'm one of those who had engine failures before, and I'm highly conscious that It may happen again.

I wish I could take you up for a demo flight

Merry Christmas to all of you...
fly safe ,fly longer

Gaston

humrnv

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Re: sonerai flying qualities
« Reply #34 on: Dec 25, 2010 »
 Well I am going to buy a Sonerai IIL project on Jan 15. However, after reading the flying qualities I wounder if I shouldn't keep looking for another aircraft. I am a 75 hr sport pilot currently taking lessons in a 172 to upgrade my ticket tp PPL. I have a couple of hours in a Pacer. I dont want to trade safety or lack of experience for the bottom dollar. What is your opinion?

Ken

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Re: sonerai flying qualities
« Reply #35 on: Dec 25, 2010 »
Ken,
Not sure where you're at, but there are good Sonerai II pilots flying good PLANS BUILT Sonerai II's all over the US.  The best advice I can give is to contact one of them and get a ride, and maybe a little dual taxi time and in-flight stick time. Pay for fuel and buy them a cup of coffee.  Fred Keip or Scott (moderator) may be able to help you find a good ride from a good plans built Sonerai pilot in a more temperate area of the states.  Then you can make an informed decision about whether the Sonerai is right for you.

As far as tailwheel is concerned, you are aware that there are (plans built)nosewheel Sonerai's out there, right?

Best of luck in your search, Ken.

Tom
Member, Taildragging Stick Monkey Association

humrnv

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Re: sonerai flying qualities
« Reply #36 on: Dec 25, 2010 »
 I am in Wichita Falls, TX. If anybody within 2 1/2 hrs from here wouldn't mind letting me check out your sonerai and maybe take a ride it would be greatly appreciated. Of course I can compensate you for your troubles...

dayflyer47

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Re: sonerai flying qualities
« Reply #37 on: Dec 25, 2010 »
if sonerai II can only carry 150lb pilot its worthless.  I talked to several who are flying sonerai's that weigh beyond 230 and one of them up in wisconsin is and he was recommended to me by great plains themselves.  He told me he weighed 235 and had no problem with the sonerai2 flying quite well.  

Its suppose to have a 550lb payload capability as gross weight, not for acrobatic manuevers of course but for straight and basically level takeoff weight.

Dave
No matter how old you may be, its still never to late to live your dream.

Bil438

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Re: sonerai flying qualities
« Reply #38 on: Dec 25, 2010 »
Dave,
I weigh 255 lbs now and flew my SII LS every flyable day including the hot days, but solo in the summer. I was flying it in summer when I weighed 285  lbs.
In 2009 I did the climb test in October, by gradually increasing weight in 50 lb increments til I got to 1150 lbs.
How does it fly at 1150? It used maybe 200 feet more runway to lift off and the climb rate reduced predictably right up to 1150. That is to say if the climb was say 900 fpm at 850 lbs and 750 fpm at 950 lbs, then you could extrapolate those numbers to 1000, 1050,1100,1150 lbs and be very close to what the actual climb would be. At 1150 lbs I got 400 fpm. The temp was near freezing in October.
I did not notice that the handling in flight was much different at 1150 lbs but I did fly the circuit 5 kts faster and flew gentle turns.
The approach seemed to be a little more steady than usual. I did notice that it doesn't float on the flare. It settles in fairly soon after the flare is begun. Once down, it stayed down.

All this is to say I don't find that useful load is a big issue. Certainly if your engine delivered say 85 or 85+ HP, you should not be weight limited.

A bigger issue would be taildragger time or if it's to be a trike, then some advanced training in the landing gear configuration your SII will be. Do you have access to some duel in say a an Eagle II, Starduster Too, Pitts II or an Extra 300, or if you are heavy then maybe a Maule Rocket.
Bill Evans

splischke

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Re: sonerai flying qualities
« Reply #39 on: Dec 25, 2010 »
I am in Wichita Falls, TX. If anybody within 2 1/2 hrs from here wouldn't mind letting me check out your sonerai and maybe take a ride it would be greatly appreciated. Of course I can compensate you for your troubles...

You are welcome to come see my Sonerai but Amarillo is about a 4 hour drive from Wichita Falls. 

-Scott
N994SP: Bio

dayflyer47

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Re: sonerai flying qualities
« Reply #40 on: Dec 25, 2010 »
Bill,

I am 6'1 and 255 right now maybe 260 after christmas LOL.  I was confident it could do much better than 150lb.  Thank you.
No matter how old you may be, its still never to late to live your dream.

thomefran

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Re: sonerai flying qualities
« Reply #41 on: Dec 26, 2010 »
Bill,

I am 6'1 and 255 right now maybe 260 after christmas LOL.  I was confident it could do much better than 150lb.  Thank you.

If you fit you should be able to fly it.  The Sonerai really is a straight forward airplane.  Anyone can take an airplane off, anyone can fly an airplane, but it takes a pilot to land them.   Are you a pilot?
Thom Francis
Sonerai II LT
N42HL

Regret is valid only when you are too old to correct it.

dayflyer47

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Re: sonerai flying qualities
« Reply #42 on: Dec 26, 2010 »
I will answer yes to that but I will not say a know it all pilot.  I am still and will continute to learn.

Dave
No matter how old you may be, its still never to late to live your dream.

splischke

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Re: sonerai flying qualities
« Reply #43 on: Dec 26, 2010 »

This topic is going on to 4 pages and some of the posts are tangent to the original subject.  I'm locking this topic so that we can move on. 

-Scott
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