Aeroshell 15-50?

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Aviacs

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I've read various places not to use av-oils in VW, but most seemed to refer to W80 & W100.
Once broken in, is there a problem using Aeroshell 15-50 in a GP 2276 with filter? If that is too heavy, how about 10-50 motorcycle oil?

(I'm trying to call the factory, too, but have very poor reception here & also sort of hate to waste his time)

Thanks!

smt
 

Smokyray

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SMT,
I ran AMSOIL synthetic 20/50 in my Ultimate 1835 for several reasons not the least of which was protection under high temps. The engine builder was a strong proponent of it's properties as well.
I share his enthusiasm for synthetic oils and more importantly clean oil. A good filter and regular changes being crucial to long engine life.
Personally I have run synthetic oils since racing motocross in the 70's and Mobil 1 in my cars while stationed in the frozen North and use them in all my equipment to this day.

As far as your VW running Aeroshell 15/50, Aircraft engine oils have specific properties that don't coincide with the air-cooled VW and vice versa. Therefore I can't recommend you use it in your 2276.

Here is a good article on synthetics and the Vee Dub.

http://www.aircooled.net/synthetic-vw-oil/

V/R
Smokey
 

Aviacs

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You've just about sold me on synthetics, mostly sounds good.

& no intention to be argumentative...Tribologically I have not dug deep enough.

But you have to expect a blanket statement like this would require some clarification? :)

As far as your VW running Aeroshell 15/50, Aircraft engine oils have specific properties that don't coincide with the air-cooled VW and vice versa.
Accepting on face value that these properties are specific, what are they?

Both engines are aircooled boxers.
AD oils always seemed prudent to me in AC.

This is probably a good time to ask, do people run TCP in VW's with leaded av-gas?

Thanks!
smt
 

kennyw

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Aviacs said:
...Accepting on face value that these properties are specific, what are they?

Both engines are aircooled boxers
Automotive oils contains things like Zinc that would not be good for aircraft engines. Not exactly sure how using Aeroshell in your VW would hurt anything other than the fact that the guy that built the "ultimate 1835" specifically recommends the Amsoil Z-Rod 20W50 because he likes 100% synthetic and he likes the Zinc additive. Zinc additive would definitely not be found in Aeroshell.

I've gotta agree with Smokey. If you're gonna buy expensive oil, might as well get the expensive oil that VW engine builders recommend. Amsoil Z-Rod 20W50 is good stuff!
 

Flyguyeddy

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I was under the impression that auto oils had removed most of the zinc by now, due to it damages catalytic converters. We should WANT zinc in the oil due to the type of lifter/camshaft interface we have on the vw. William wynne calls for rotella 15w40 in corvair engines with a similar lifter style, and says to add zddp for first running and change the oil after an hours worth of engine time. Thats additional zinc on top of what the rotella has already.
 

Pttim

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I have always understood oil with zinc are good when running 100LL. I always ran synthetic in my Harleys and VW cars and buggies, but heard it was not compatible with the 100LL. I did use TCP to reduce the lead build up with good results.
 

danieldorgan

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I have only heard of motor oils with added zinc and phosphorous used during the break in period, or in conjunction with racing motors which tend to be rebuilt often due to the abuse they must withstand. I would be hesitant to run with zinc additive in the longer term without a clear recommendation.
 

Aviacs

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Actually, the more i read, the more inclined i am to Aeroshell 15-50 which is a semi-synthetic. & its an AD oil.

In the early 1980s a semi-synthetic multigrade W oil for piston engines (AeroShell Oil W
15W-50) was added to the range. This grade has become very popular amongst engine
manufacturers and operators alike. In order to cater for those Lycoming engines which need
improved load-carrying (i.e. those engine models which require the addition of Lycoming
Additive LW 16702)
AeroShell Oil W 15W-50 was upgraded in 1986 to include an antiwear additive
Hmmm, that would be the infamous Lycoming O320 H2AD, perhaps.

Brad Penn 20-50, another semi-synthetic has a lot of zinc - except when it does not. :eek: reading online it sounds like it has stabilized, but the containers & packaging have changed, harder to tell what's what. I like Brad Penn way oil for price (it's made sort of locally in the old Kendall refinery), never personally used the racing oils, which were sold on the merits of the high zinc & phosphorous.

Some online posts seem to indicate that zinc levels are down in VR1.

I suppose my resistance to Amsoil was from the days it was overhyped and sometimes sold almost like a pyramid scheme. I do understand that the industry has settled out and a lot of people have excellent success with it.
It's tempting by testimonial, but by that qualifier, they all are.

I sent a note to GP a couple days ago, no response yet. The catalog only lists using 30W straight oil for engines through the 2180. Also nothing spec'd (that I saw) for the 2276.

Do the tappets in a VW rotate like in a Continental with mushroom tappets?
Aren't all popular boxer aircraft engines "flat tappet" or am i not understanding the term?

smt
 

Aviacs

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Then there's Aeroshell Sport +4 (10-40 wt)



Our collaboration with shell goes back to 2004. Our decision to work with the aeroshell team On the development of the new formulation For aeroshell oil sport plus 4 was based on the Benefits the new formulation would provide to Our customers. “we are convinced of the performance of the New aeroshell oil sport plus 4 and that is why we Will recommend this product exclusively in our Revised service information, which will be released Soon. Brp-rotax will continue to use aeroshell Aviation lubricants and is excited about the new Phase of this technical collaboration

Thomas Uhr, General Manager, BRP-Rotax
smt
 

Smokyray

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Aviacs said:
I sent a note to GP a couple days ago, no response yet. The catalog only lists using 30W straight oil for engines through the 2180. Also nothing spec'd (that I saw) for the 2276.
SMT,
Great Plains Aircraft Supply business has been for sale for nearly a year now since Marty's death and has only sporadically responded to correspondence. FYI...
V/R
Smokey

PS: Marty helped me disassemble 994SP's original GP2180 during a visit to GPAS in 2017. While helping with the disassembly, we solved many of the World's problems and while inspecting the heat scored main bearings of the 2180, pondered the subject of engine lubricants. I mentioned my affinity for Multi Vis synthetics due to my motorcycle racing background. His reply with a big grin was classic. "You get what you pay for"
 

Aviacs

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has been for sale for nearly a year now since Marty's death
As i understand it only from reading on here, Marty sold the business in early 2016 but stayed involved.
I've never seen who bought it?

Are they still shipping any products?

smt
 

soneraii

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I run Valvoline VR-1 20/50 as recommended by Scott Casler of Hummel Engines (VW). He says that the engines need the zinc in that oil. Furthermore, it can be purchased at local auto parts stores.

Ref. GPAS I recently ordered a new set of exhaust stacks and it took three weeks to get them and then only after a couple of calls.

Kevin
 

mhflyit

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I've only used Brad Penn (high zinc) - the 'green oil'. One of the oils recommended by Steve Bennett.
 

Aviacs

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Elmira, NY
I've only used Brad Penn (high zinc) - the 'green oil'. One of the oils recommended by Steve Bennett
It's the one i "want" to use based on being formulated specifically for older flat tappet engines in highly stressed applications. It is sort of a local product & sort of famous in track circles. Or is that circle tracks..
However, before your note, had never heard of it being used in an airplane.

The problem with Brad Penn & Valvoline is that they tend to mess with their formulas from time to time. Or at least they have in the past. Aeroshell is consistent by mandate at all times and locations.

Think I am down to Brad Penn or Aeroshell. Not yet convinced that Aeroshell's non-zinc enhanced wear & pressure additive package is inferior to zinc in other oils. The additive package was developed to comply with a Lycoming AD re the H2AD engines that had infamous routine cam-tappet failures. Can't seem to find any direct comparisons between say, Aeroshell 15-50 & a common auto oil such as VR1.

Aeroshell 15-15 is convenient to buy and cheap enough compared to automotive "racing" oils, at the local home heating oil jobber where i buy other Aeroshell products (80W+, 100W+) for our club C140 & pre-war J3).

Has anyone ever actually used it?
Have there been reports that it was "bad" in VW powerplants?

smt, thumbing wistfully through the 2000 GP catalog for vanished options in VW aeromotivation.
 

ChuckerF14

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... to answer an earlier question... The "flat" tappet is slightly crowned and the contact point rides slightly off center due to the angle of the cam grind. The off-center contact point causes the tappet to rotate providing more even wear. However, the lifter (tappet) does not rotate at the same speed as the cam and any metal to metal contact would result in immediate and destructive wear. The ZDDP is necessary to maintain a film barrier between the surfaces and prevent rapid wear of the cam and lifter.

Not all boxer engines use flat tappets. Even the VW can be modified for roller type lifters. They are typically used when extreme spring pressures are used to achieve extreme RPM's....nothing I would want unless I was running an engine over the factory redline. If the lifter follows the cam (some people refer to lifters as "followers" because that is what we want them to do) then you have plenty of spring pressure....more is not better.... but I digress.

Flat tappets need ZDDP (aka zinc). The challenge with additives (fwiw) is that you must control the level of ZDDP on your own. More is not better. Too much can cause other problems (ash buildup, etc.). There are a number of oils that have been mentioned here where the manufacturer has taken care of that formulation for you. I would be comfortable with any oil formulated for flat-tappet engines.

As for synthetic oil....one website claims better heat transfer and another claims it is worse. Oh, the world of motor oil....everyone has an opinion. If your temperatures are good then almost any oil will last the 25 hours recommended between oil changes. If your temperatures are not good...your oil is not your problem.

All the best,
Chucker

Just my opinions....your mileage may vary. I'm not certified to provide advice....just ask my kids.
 
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