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S

Sb2021

Active Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2021
Messages
30
Hello,

My name is Sam. I live in Madison. I just purchased S1 plans from Sonex.

I've been flying since I was a teenager. I learned at Morey when the runway was a sidewalk. Excited to start planning and getting started on the fuse.

I have no experience welding or working with tubing so that will be great to learn! I've always wanted to build a plane and I'm finally established enough in my mid-30s to try it.

My plans for the plane now are light and stock. I'm curious about aux fuel and ADSB-out solutions.

I've been lurking for a bit and this a truly a great internet community, which is so very rare! Cheers!
 
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I am currently rebuilding a Kitfox and as far as ADS-B out, here is what I opted for which provides great bang for buck.

  1. Garmin GTX 327 transponder - About $300 used on ebay - Going to need a transponder anywhere you need ADS-B
  2. Garmin G5 EFIS - $1200 new - Works as the encoder for the transponder as well as providing all needed flight instruments and more.
  3. UAvionix EchoUAT - $1400 -new with WAAS GPS - provides both ADS-B In and out.
The above when paired with a phone or tablet running any of a number of aviation flight book apps provide all navigation and flight instruments you would need in a Sonerai.
 
I really like the idea of using a G5! Why not use a ads-b transponder like a GTX 335 and skip the EchoUAT?
 
Sb2021 said:
I really like the idea of using a G5! Why not use a ads-b transponder like a GTX 335 and skip the EchoUAT?
Click to expand...

Garmin GTX 335 = about $3400 or more and no ADS-B IN

GTX 327 with EchoUAT = $1700 or so and you get both ADS-B IN and OUT
 
n109jb said:
Garmin GTX 335 = about $3400 or more and no ADS-B IN

GTX 327 with EchoUAT = $1700 or so and you get both ADS-B IN and OUT
Click to expand...
Yeah that explains it! Very nice solution. Thank you for your reply
 
Welcome aboard! I like your plan being light and stock. No aux fuel options unless you're really light and get creative with the wingtips. If I was doing my panel over, I'd do the GTX 327 as above as well.
 
The way I understand the ADSB deal is if you’re not flying in controlled airspace you don’t have to have it , am I mistaken ? I would hate to add all that weight in a S1 if I didn’t absolutely have to . I’m finishing a S1 and fly out of a uncontrolled field and have no intention of installing anything other than a becker radio
 
vhensley said:
The way I understand the ADSB deal is if you’re not flying in controlled airspace you don’t have to have it , am I mistaken ? I would hate to add all that weight in a S1 if I didn’t absolutely have to . I’m finishing a S1 and fly out of a uncontrolled field and have no intention of installing anything other than a becker radio
Click to expand...

You basically need it anywhere you used to need mode-c and above 10k. Your plan can work but you’ll be limited in where you can go. Which may be a fine trade-off, honestly.

I had thought it was needed below the shelf of class c airspace but I was mistaken. Maybe I can get away without it too.

(d) After January 1, 2020, and unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft in the following airspace unless the aircraft has equipment installed that meets the requirements in paragraph (b) of this section:

(1) Class B and Class C airspace areas;

(2) Except as provided for in paragraph (e) of this section, within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 to this part from the surface upward to 10,000 feet MSL;

(3) Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL;

(4) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, Class E airspace within the 48 contiguous states and the District of Columbia at and above 10,000 feet MSL, excluding the airspace at and below 2,500 feet above the surface; and

(5) Class E airspace at and above 3,000 feet MSL over the Gulf of Mexico from the coastline of the United States out to 12 nautical miles.
 
I live in Waunakee! So you are my neighbor.

I also have. Thorp T18 wing project. I will be setting those wings.

It may be possible to build a tank inside or to set a bay or two on the S1. But it WILL add weight for the tanks and lines and a pump. So you may have to weigh (no pun intended but it is funny) whether or not the extra fuel is going to be needed very often. As it will add both weight and complexity and also add time for building to figure it all out.

On the S2 having a small rear ceiling tank may add some utility as a ballast for a passenger. And could be emptied when not needed and if CG and gross weight allows for added fuel on a cross country. But again. A lot of weight and complexity for what is supposed to be a simple airplane.
 
Make wing tip tanks. Weight at the tips actually helps the wing structurally. 5 gallons a side with transfer pumps to pump into the main.
 
n109jb said:
Make wing tip tanks. Weight at the tips actually helps the wing structurally. 5 gallons a side with transfer pumps to pump into the main.
Click to expand...

I like that concept.Do you have any design details? How do you transfer the loads into the spar?
 
No details, but you aren't taking much weight at all. 5 gallons is 30 pounds so at 6g you are only talking about supporting 180 pounds. Haven't worked any numbers but a row of screws/nutplates through the skin should do it. Maybe put a couple through the front and rear spar flanges that are structural 10-32 screws, and the rest just 8-32 SS screws.
 
Bet you’re right n109jb. A couple #10s in the spar caps would probably be good. I could do some hand calcs for shear tear out. I know some Glasairs have wet tips. I believe they de-rate the airframe when installed (no aerobatics). I’ll search for some images while I wait for my plans!
 
 
Was thinking that for the probably few times that you would need more fuel you could just make a "drop tank" like the military. Obviously wouldn't be able to actually drop it, but could be easier and removable.
 
I’ve seen drop style tanks on an experimental clipped-wing t-craft. They hung on the struts where the cross members are and the fuel lines ran down the struts below the cabin floor.

It would be neat to have the transfer pumps in removable tanks so you would lose that weight too when removing them.

6 gallons in the tips would add something like 200 miles to the range. That is a nice improvement without much weight and no parasitic drag added.
 
Yep. just throwing stuff out there. The other option if you don't need the baggage area in the turtledeck is to install an auxiliary tank there. You could also fabricate one that installs behind the seat. Don't know if you are planning mid-wing or low-wing. With a low wing all of the wing controls so the are low so a tank could be fabricated to go under the top longerons but above the controls. On a mid-wing you would have to make a passage for the controls. Of course weight and balance would have to be considered as well as structural mounting.

When I had the front seat in my 2L, I had a regular old 5-gallon plastic gas can that I would strap into the front seat. It had a transfer pump affixed to it and quick connect fuel and electrical connections. Worked great. Burn out 5 gallons, hit the pump and full again. Now that my airplane has has the front seat removed I plan to fabricate an auxiliary tank to go there, or it may become my main tank with the current tank having the transfer function. I figure I can easily get another 10 gallons there. Many plans but gotta get my Kitfox done first.
 
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