Bubble Canopy and lowered turtle deck

[DavidRoss]

Hi everyone.
I'm looking at buying a Sonerai IIL project that is pretty far along and the work looks nicely done.

The fuselage has been modified with a lowered turtle deck and fitted with a bubble canopy so that it has a similar silhouette to an RV3 or RV4.
To compensate, the builder added what looks like 20% more vertical stabilizer area and has also incorporated a pylon/rollbar just behind the pilot's head.

Has anyone seen a flying Sonerai done like this or heard others making similar mods to the fuselage?

The design will impart a little more drag but I'm not looking to race anyway. My goal is gentleman solo aerobatics with the occasional passenger (no dual aerobatics).

Any help or opinions on the mod would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[soneraifred]

David:
It's been done. A gentleman by the name of Neil Sidders down in Louisiana did it several years ago. See the attached photo.

 

[Neil1]

That photo was taken right after the FAA sign off. Here's a little better shot. I sold the airplane in 1989 and the new owner crashed it near Moline Ill. Flipped over in a soybean field because of a stuck valve. No injuries. Someone else in Illinois owns it now. It has not been repaired.

The airplane was rock steady at any speed and when flying with a plans built mid wing with the same engine they were dead even.

 

[eschrom]

Neil, that is a mighty good looking Sonerai you built, a real head turner. If I were starting over I would try to imitate it. You must miss it.

Ed

 

[Neil1]

Thanks, I've always viewed imitation or duplication of one's work as the greatest compliment, and yes I really do miss the airplane.

I work in a builder assist shop and get to fly some pretty neat airplanes. Glastar, Sportsman 2+2, Glasair, Lancair ES and I am about to finish an Acro Sport II of my own. So far the Sonerai is still my favorite to just play in.

 

[racegunz]

Isn't that a P-40 in the background?

 

[Neil1]

Yup. P40-E to be exact. It is in a museum out west somewhere now. It and a F4F Wildcat were the first airplanes I ever worked on. The Wildcat is flying somewhere in England now, I'm told.

 

[jeff naul]

Hey Neil this is Jeff Naul, didn't know you still peeked in this site. We have spoke on the phone before. I actually saw you and your wife having dinner at Lester's a while back, your Triumph sweater was the give away and my girlfriend confirmed it was you. She went to school with one of your daughters. I think I'm about to part with mine I haven't flown it coming up on a year now and probably only flew it 5 hours the year before. The zodiac takes all my time now. I always talk myself out of selling because its just so fun to play with. I'm hoping to maybe sell it with a partial trade of a s-1 project. I'll want something to piddle with at home since the zodiac is just about ready to go to the hangar.

 

[Neil1]

Hi Jeff. Well you should have come over and joined us. Sort of a special event as Becky (older daughter) had been offered a teaching position at the University(University of Louisiana @ Monroe)in the Speech Language Pathology Department. Starts Jan. 6.

If you are stepping into a S1 Pitts project, you should join us over at <BiplaneForum.com>.

 

[jeff naul]

I stopped by the Winnsboro airport a few months ago to see what you were working on and couldn't get in the gate.

 

[Neil1]

Gate code sent in a PM

 

[mullinspsm]

Neil,

That is the prettiest Sonerai I have ever seen. (Don't mean to offend others) I also would like to duplicate that canopy. Your vertical and rudder also have nice lines to them, kind of Cap 232 ish. Once again very nice.

 

[Schmleff]

That photo was taken right after the FAA sign off. Here's a little better shot. I sold the airplane in 1989 and the new owner crashed it near Moline Ill. Flipped over in a soybean field because of a stuck valve. No injuries. Someone else in Illinois owns it now. It has not been repaired.

The airplane was rock steady at any speed and when flying with a plans built mid wing with the same engine they were dead even.

Neil,

Beautiful airplane!

I noticed that you had quite a bit more rudder than stock. How did that change the way it handled?

 

[Neil1]

I posted most of the affects of the changes in another thread under "general discussion"
<Just visiting but may be able to help with some tail wheel and rudder questions.>
Mostly the airplane had more feedback in the rudder pedals due to the added cord and actually felt less sensitive than a standard and at the same time it was more powerful. In short, I liked it better.
Glad you like it.

 

[Gaston]

Hi Neil

just curious

how many other Sonerai did you fly,and were they S2. S2L, or S2LS

Mine is a S2L to the plans, and is very stable, and rock solid.
with plenty of rudder effectiveness,
In fact I never found a negative point about this standard design, and it's a real pleasure in strong cross winds.

Gaston

 

[Neil1]

I flew one other II L. It was strictly to the plans. Had a chance to fly a couple of mid wingers but couldn't get in under the spar carry through. One of the mid wing pilots flew mine and liked the feel. I didn't really notice the standard rudder to be sensitive, just lighter than mine and mine had a bit more control in a hard slip. I never spun the other airplane.

 

[Jim Grasso]

Yup. P40-E to be exact. It is in a museum out west somewhere now. It and a F4F Wildcat were the first airplanes I ever worked on. The Wildcat is flying somewhere in England now, I'm told.

Neil I JUST saw your amazing Sonerai. Thinking of trying to find a RV3, but $$$. Where is your mod plans? Was it a difficult modification to do?Where did you get the canopy? From an RV?? Thanks Jim

 

[Aviacs]

This is fascinating in a personal sense.
Last spring I bought Gaston's airplane in Canada, from the guy who bought it from Gaston & never flew it.
(reference post 15 above)

It is such a well built airplane with so many "extras" that it was an easy decision despite the fact that it does not fit me.
I need to raise the canopy a minimum of 2". 3-1/2 would be better. As noted in previous posts, this is with 1/2" seat foam on the Aluminum pan, as received; so no height to be gained there. The seat pan & frame could be lowered only 1/2 or 3/4" before it impacts changing the torque tube & control functions.
So no matter what, the canopy has to go up.

The delay working on it this summer was the result of a number of life factors including wife's retirement, but the mental limit is dithering whether the change would be safe without changing (increasing) the vertical tail and rudder. Height? Keep VT height, increase rudder area? "Try it as is & see????

Anyone willing to comment?

I'm capable of the work either way, but not competent to understand how to parse aerodynamic considerations.

Photo shows minimum, prefer another 1-1/2"


smt

 

[Flyguyeddy]

Neil I JUST saw your amazing Sonerai. Thinking of trying to find a RV3, but $$$. Where is your mod plans? Was it a difficult modification to do?Where did you get the canopy? From an RV?? Thanks Jim

the canopy is a full uncut sonerai canopy. You can see it referenced here
http://monerai.com/monerai cd/Newsletters/MONINK-INAV/83/MAY-JUN 83.pdf
and here http://monerai.com/monerai cd/Newsletters/MONINK-INAV/85/JAN-FEB 85.pdf

it is currently in rantoul, Il and in poor shape. Was flipped in a bean field and has some damage. Ive considered trying to obtain it, as ive got spare wings and its a cool plane.

 

[Jim Grasso]

Thank you for the help.