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Soneraifred

N99FK and me at OSH
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Jan 12, 2006
Messages
909
Location
Franksville, WI
SMT: The water-cooled heads were offered for a while by Great Plains Aircraft Supply. They were taken off the market due to lack of demand.
 

mx5tc

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
21
Location
Naperville, IL
Chucker,

The fact that you have Total Seal gapless rings in the second ring position leads me to believe that you have a nice factory built HAPI 1835 engine that should have the HAPI 3 degree tapered hub as well. If the rings are good and the cylinder bores still have good cross hatch, I'd confirm proper end gaps (per new Total Seal specs) and re-use them. If you need to replace the rings, I would suggest contacting Total Seal and going with new rings with the top ring being gapless.

Mitch
 

ChuckerF14

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2013
Messages
692
Location
Prescott Valley, AZ
Mitch,

I sent an email to Patrick Taylor. He asked me for photos. We will see about the hub. I have tried to pull it with a 7-ton 3-jaw puller. No luck yet. My brother has a press but if it is a shrink fit hub, I would rather leave it in place.

Low and behold, Total Seal is in Phoenix, less than 2 hour drive down the mountain. I should be able to get lots of help from them.

Thanks,
Chucker
 

Aviacs

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Messages
87
Location
Elmira, NY
SMT: The water-cooled heads were offered for a while by Great Plains Aircraft Supply. They were taken off the market due to lack of demand.
Wow.
They were building some great stuff. Thinking of the nose case and set up to run the engine with the rear drive toward the front, the water cooled heads, the inkling (notes in the catalogs) about a reduction for the rear drive. I looked at the water cooled, turbo set up and it struck me "why would anyone buy limbach or rotax, with this on offer". I owned a spam can in those years, did not have the time (or extra money) for experimental.

I wonder how many were shipped, user reports, what happened to the tooling?

smt
 

mx5tc

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
21
Location
Naperville, IL
Mitch,

I sent an email to Patrick Taylor. He asked me for photos. We will see about the hub. I have tried to pull it with a 7-ton 3-jaw puller. No luck yet. My brother has a press but if it is a shrink fit hub, I would rather leave it in place.

Low and behold, Total Seal is in Phoenix, less than 2 hour drive down the mountain. I should be able to get lots of help from them.

Thanks,
Chucker
Chucker,

Take a piston and a set of rings when you drive down the hill to PHX. First and second ring gap widths may differ and you really need to run modern Total Seal compression rings in the the first gap.

I talked to Patrick & Robin earlier today; they've been in Elkhorn, WI for about 28 years. They gave me permission to put scanned copies of the old HAPI catalogs I've got on Sonerai.net and wish us all the best. I'm sure Patrick will be able to ID the hub on your crankshaft when he see's your picture.

Mitch
 

ChuckerF14

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2013
Messages
692
Location
Prescott Valley, AZ
Mitch,

I got an email back from Patrick. He confirmed that it is a taper fit hub. He also gave me some advise on how to remove it. I am convinced that once the hub is torqued onto the crankshaft, the retaining bolt is merely for peace of mind.... That hub DID NOT want to part with the shaft. However, with all the persuasion I could provide, it finally popped free.

I spoke to a tech at Total Seal. He was very helpful.

Thanks,
Chucker
 

mx5tc

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
21
Location
Naperville, IL
Chucker,

What's the trick to removing the 3 degree taper pulley from the HAPI crankshaft? I need to go through my 1835 at some point in time. Is there a crankshaft seal that the pulley has to be removed to replace? I plan on checking all clearances and replacing all the seals on my 1835 before I hang it on my S2L.

Mitch
 

ChuckerF14

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2013
Messages
692
Location
Prescott Valley, AZ
Mitch,

I put a large socket on the nose of the crankshaft. You can drill a steel plate to match at least three of the holes in the prop hub. You can use your crush plate but you need to support it with steel to avoid warping the aluminum. That allows you to use six bolts to pull on the hub. Put your plate on top of the socket and run bolts between the plate and the hub. Tighten the bolts evenly. You can warm the hub with a torch to help it release. Just when I thought that it would not budge, I laid it on its side and delivered some upward blows to the plate with a block of wood and a 2-1/2# sledge hammer. Nothing happened until I turned my back to have another think. Behind me I heard the 'pop' as the hub finally decided to give up its life long mate. I'm quite convinced that, once the hub has been properly torqued, the hub bolt is just for show and pilot peace of mind. Wild horses could not have pulled that thing free. But it did eventually part.

Mine had a sand seal epoxied to the nose of the crankshaft. I ordered a new seal. I'm curious about machine-in seals. Dune buggies use them but the seal may be a different diameter from our prop hubs. I am also going to take my crank to Scott Casler (Hummel Engines) to have it deep drilled. I know that it is not considered necessary but it is cheap additional insurance that the crank won't crack between the threads and the keyway.

If you have not yet opened up your engine, I imagine you will be very pleasantly surprised. The HAPI workmanship seems to be top notch.

All the best,
Chucker
 

Karmarepair

Active Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
38
Was HAPI the company that started selling watercooled heads for the VW? With turbo options?
Were any ever shipped (water cooled systems)? What happened to the tooling (patterns and fixturing)?

Or am in thinking of a different company/

Thanks!
smt
Great Plains showed water cooled heads for ONE YEAR in their catalog, 2004. Steve has been Called Home, after selling the company. I have no information on what happened to the tooling/patterns.

I can't remember if it was Joe Horvath or who that came up with the turbo kit in the early KR-2 days. Dan Diehl had that setup on his Old Blue, but later took it off because it was too fast for his buddies to keep up with ;-). Ken Rand had one on the airplane he was killed in, and it looks like he passed out at 13K ft, stalled, and spun into the ground. Rand-Robinson used to show it in their catalog, but that business is done and gone.

And NONE of this would EVER fit under the cowl of a Sonerai.
 

Aviacs

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Messages
87
Location
Elmira, NY
And NONE of this would EVER fit under the cowl of a Sonerai.
My understanding is that quite a few people, maybe not in US install Rotax 912/14. How much different are the GP heads?
What percentage of Sonerais are flying with un-modified factory cowling?

smt
 

NX237F

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2018
Messages
8
Location
Milwaukee
My flywheel looks like this conversion kit. I recently bought a new flywheel with a O-ring seal from Great-plains and everything ported over. I did have to shim my mag and stater back 0.100"

REF http://www.greatplainsas.com/schapi.html

I think with careful selection of one of these 1970 thru 1999 Big Twins Dynamos you could fabricate your own mag drive and get rid of the cast flywheel option. It is a big workload to pull a engine every year for inspections but this should be a minimum practice until you make the parts to correct.

Note the hapi cases are not deep enough for the higher output dynos. Stick with 20A ish .
1581917272573.png


1581917272573.png
 

ChuckerF14

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2013
Messages
692
Location
Prescott Valley, AZ
Any idea what failed and why. I plan on removing everything outside of the rotor. I want the electricity, not the starter ring. Was there a problem with the rotors and stators that made them bind? Did the torque on the starter ring crack the cast aluminum flywheel and cause the rotor to bind? Did the magnets become dislodged and bind against the stator?

I just want the stator, rotor, and mag drive. I was planning on having Scott Casler machine off the rest.

Chucker
 

SONERAI-1369Z

New Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Messages
2
Location
Pickett wis. 54964
Any idea what failed and why. I plan on removing everything outside of the rotor. I want the electricity, not the starter ring. Was there a problem with the rotors and stators that made them bind? Did the torque on the starter ring crack the cast aluminum flywheel and cause the rotor to bind? Did the magnets become dislodged and bind against the stator?

I just want the stator, rotor, and mag drive. I was planning on having Scott Casler machine off the rest.

Chucker
I did not find anything wrong with the flywheel or magnets after mine set up. It seemed that the stator coils were dark colored and must have heeted up and expanded to cause the rubbing and final set up and stoppage. After it cooled some then I could turn the engine again with rubbing sound from flywheel. When all cooled down then engine turned freely. Hapi stator clearance was .010" and great planes was .050" l am not sure if clearance wa the problem or if Hapi stator had overheating problems. I ran the engine for about 20 hours before I had the problem.
 

ChuckerF14

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2013
Messages
692
Location
Prescott Valley, AZ
I did not find anything wrong with the flywheel or magnets after mine set up. It seemed that the stator coils were dark colored and must have heeted up and expanded to cause the rubbing and final set up and stoppage. After it cooled some then I could turn the engine again with rubbing sound from flywheel. When all cooled down then engine turned freely. Hapi stator clearance was .010" and great planes was .050" l am not sure if clearance wa the problem or if Hapi stator had overheating problems. I ran the engine for about 20 hours before I had the problem.
Thanks,

Perhaps I should take .040" off the inside of the rotor. That would give me the same clearance as the GPASC rotor/stator combination. I may lose some amperage...but don't really mind. I only need one or two amps to power the ignition.
 

mx5tc

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
21
Location
Naperville, IL
Chucker,

Do you really need the charging system? A relatively small lithium battery will run your ignition for a lot longer than a Sonerai's crusing range, even with an extended tank. Having the charging system means you'll need a transponder and ADS/B in most airspace in this country.
 

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