How realiable is reliable; The VW engine

[piperpilot1363]

Hey,
While i was discussing my plans with my A&P buddies, they were concerned about running a VW in my soon to be sonerai. Just how reliable are these engines compared to say, a O-200 or c-75? I know the maintance costs are low, but how does the saftey factor add up? How many times (if any) has it givin' you the silent treatment?

Andrew Andraka
CP N3351W

Those who give up liberty for temporary safety in turn deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-Ben Franklin

 

[splischke]

I heard the same rhetoric when I first announced that I was planning to use a VW. Not surprising, the people that offered their opinions had never owned, operated or even saw an aero-VW! This does not mean they are wrong though. Aero-VWs have had a history of in-flight failures over the years. In many cases, these failures were due to improper assembly, use of cast cranks, use of prop hubs that were mis-matched for the application, etc. Hopefully much of this is behind us now that we know what works and what doesn't.

To answer your question of how a VW compares to a O-200 or C-75, that's hard to do. I don't know what the statistics are. And even if we had statistics, these will reflect the VW failures that were caused by practices we now avoid.

In my opinion, if you stick with a proven engine kit like the 2180cc from Great Plains, assemble it as instructed and care for it properly, I think you'll be happy with its reliability. At least I am.

-Scott

 

[soneraifred]

I agree with Scott. What I usually tell people who ask about VW reliability is that you can make the engine as reliable as you want (within limits). Good carbs, dual ignition, and high quality parts are all available. The VW will need a little more tender loving care than a Continental or Lycoming (valve adjustments, valve lapping. etc), but the price is worth it. Just as a point of reference, I flew behind the 1850 that was originally in my IIL for 21 years and 1100 hours, and it never let me down. I had to replace the cylinders and the heads a couple times, but the bottom end was bullet-proof.

 

[piperpilot1363]

Yea, i thought so, manly because i've noticed just how safe you pilots are via your posts, and it makes it kind of obivous that you wouldn't make a trade like that. The point was actually brought up by our local crazy Sea Bee pilot (which doesn't exactly have the best engine in the world as you may know) after his vw fox gave the ghost this weekend. Completely different engine, I know, but still.

Andrew
CP N3351W

 

[Gaston]

Hi all

I thought this could be of interest for some of you...

I received my long block 2276 kit from Great plains ,
First,all boxes arrived in Quebec Intact and parts were meticulously protected in their boxes.
I was provided with a check list that tells you in which box (5 ),a part will be found
and I have to say I'm hihgly satisfied by the quality of the parts and machinework provided.This is a really nice engine kit and I could hardly ask for more.

as of now all measurements and checking are completed and I'm pleased to find all specs are met.
Rods were within about a gram from each other and I had little work to do to bring pistons in the same range...
Cylinders top are within below .0005" on both sides ...
force one hub is a beatyful concept,but will add a little work on the cowling to fit.

My short block is completed by now and I'm very happy with the way it went.

I was impressed by the 042 heads provided, 55 cc chambers and .216" shim will bring a CR of 7.5:1
this has been double and triple checked to make them all within 0.05 Cr of each other.
intake valves are impressive,and exhaust valves are the same size as were my intake valves on y 040 heads.
Nikasil cylinders are light...very light.
this is all for now, and I'm very glad with my choice....

as an answer for Andrew...

I'm one of those who experienced a total engine failure 11 years ago and I still remember very well and my wife too...
this was a mag failure and has nothing to do with te VW in itself.
then I built a brand new 1835 from Great plains which is still running strong.
now I'm building a 2276 and I'm very confident this will be a very reliable engine as I'm taking the time,and care for details to build it reliable...building booklet provided by great plains is very complete in itself and should lead to a good and reliable engine.

Bear in mind that you can buy a set of cylinders and a pair of brand new heads for very good price compared to continental or lycoming cylinder...

I think we are lucky to fly planes designed around a VW powerplant...



Gaston Dorval
C-GPXD S2L

 

[garymedic]

Andrew;
Just to add a little something for icing; I've been EAA'ing since 1975 and have seen Lycomings and Continentals fail in my fellow chapter member's aircraft due to such things as vibration related cracking of s.s. compression fittings, PS5C carb plumbing/pressure issues, improperly designed/implemented carb head boxes, etc. In each case, the ENGINE wasn't the issue, rather the builder failed to address the detail issues that make the engine complete as a unit. VW's have a great history if we learn from the mistakes of others and don't try to reinvent the wheel....

Gary

 

[RAMCAM]

I feel compelled to add some balance to this arguement. We have had 2 vw engines in 2 aircraft and have had to walk home with both suffering engine failure. I admit that both were not greatly setup.
secondly power to weight ratio is not great with vdubs. As for reinventing the wheel, there are plenty of sonerais with other power plants in them, most of these owners would be happy to share their experience. Personally if it was me building from scratch and was building an aircraft not for a specific purpose, then the vw sould not be my engine of choice.

 

[Gaston]

Hi all

When I bought my sonerai ,back in '95
it was low priced following and engine failure with no damage on airframe.
I investigated ,and found the CR to be very close to 9.0:1,
the timing was at about 5 BTDC and 3 exaust valves were burnt.
I also found that between cyl.1 and 2 there was .035" from top to top...one can imagine the stress on this head...

How many VW so badly set are among those who failed ???

the 1835 ( another one)I just removed from my bird ran and still runs very well for 10 years and over 350 hours with only exhaust valve problem,probably due to 100 LL.
I remove it only because I need more power to operate from a small grass field,with 2 on board.

I Know that I could find more powerful and lighter powerplant ,but they don't fit my wallet...
so VW keeps me flying...

Gaston Dorval
C-GPXD S2L

 

[splischke]

I feel compelled to add some balance to this arguement. We have had 2 vw engines in 2 aircraft and have had to walk home with both suffering engine failure. I admit that both were not greatly setup.

RAMCAM, What caused your VWs to fail? Please share as this info can help make our VWs safer.

 

[RAMCAM]

Both did cranks.

 

[mike1]

Did the cranks break, or did you have a bearing failure?

 

[RAMCAM]

Sorry Bearing failure. In fairness to vw's the second engine was an aeropower engine which was wrongly cammed and overproped. A bad combination.
My point in the original post is that there are many other engines in this airframe that are well proven and give great performance.

 

[splischke]

RAMCAM, I noticed in your profile that you are using a Rotax 914. Have you flown with it yet? I'm interested to hear your numbers. Doesn't a new 914 cost something like $27,000 USD?

 

[RAMCAM]

We have about 200 hrs on it in it's current configuration.