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Is this Sonerai 1 repairable?

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2flySonerai

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
12
Location
Melbourne Beach, Florida
Hello everyone,
I am new here and have few airframe questions.
My friend has a completed Sonerai 1 aircraft, less engine, that he would like to sell me.
The fuselage has been cut directly aft of the cockpit.
The cuts are clean and pins have been pressed in to join the fore and aft sections of the fuselage back together.
The main wing spar has be cut so the main wings fold up.
The rudder/flaps have been immobilized by riveting 4"x6" sheet aluminum to the flap to main wing and rudder to stabilizer.
And the main gear strut has been cut in two pieces.
The aircraft was used for a period of time as a prop for a magic show aboard a Carnival cruise ship this is the reason for the separation of the fuselage and main wing and tail modifications.
I want to make it airworthy again.
Would the members give me some guidance with this?
If needed I will photograph the aircraft in detail and post them to be evaluated.
Thank you in advance for your time and consideration.
 
Hello, and welcome. This sounds like the white/blue O'day Sonerai, in its 'together' configuration, last owned by Bob Schank from Michigan. It was built in Illinois. It should have horizontal stripes down the rudder, unless the cruise line company re-painted it….
Your questions are best answered one at a time, as some of the damage done is rebuildable, some of it is not…
A "cut in two" fuselage CAN be re-spliced safely. If you did purchase this, I could sketch out the proper way. 'Main wing spar cut'…….If you are talking about the 'tang' that is aluminum and protrudes from the wing root…..not repairable in my opinion….However, the wing ribs, skins, etc, could be re-used with a new spar, if the disassembly was done carefully, to avoid elongating rivet holes.
'Main gear strut' cut in two….A new gear would have to be purchased. Gears are available.
I presume , if you look in the cockpit, you may find the control column/stick missing….that's because I have those parts in my shop……Originally Bob Schank was parting it out, and I bought some parts, but then he sold it to the cruise line……
If I remember, the airplane was well built.
So, much of what is there 'could' be re-built, but remember, YOU would be the manufacturer, as the reason it was being parted out is that it had been de-registered by original builder…..In its present condition, as you describe it, the value is not very high, but a re-build like this would certainly give you the 51% rule that you need to register/license an experimental….…..I can be reached at [email protected] if you would like to discuss more of the details…Ed Fisher
 
FWIW, I bought a previously damaged but repaired SII LS. The seller said and I thought 50 hours of work would do it, make it flyable.
On closer inspection it had 94 defects. It took years to complete. The parts and materials ran to another $7000.
It turned out to be possibly hotter than other Sonerai aircraft. I spent say $3000 more on advanced taildragger training in a Maule Rocket. I also found that some changes made by previous owners made it much hotter. It cost thousands more to correct them. You might not find that out until you fly it for a while.
Having said that it is fun to fly. The controls are very light and responsive. as the Homebuilts book says, " It is a completely honest airplane." That means it does exactly what you told it to do and it does that until you do something else.
Everyone who flies it needs to be having an A-game day, to be "fresh and up" to fly it. Preflight is an hour long event. Weather is a big deal.
There is a sense of satisfaction in flying something that very few other people can or will fly.
I'm not saying that any of this will be in your future, but in your place I would not buy this project. If a Sonerai 1 was what I wanted then I'd scratch build one and know exactly what I had. The total hours involved might be less that making this project into a flyable aircraft. Either way it would be a very good idea to be or become an advanced taildragger pilot.
Bill E
 
My two cents.... it better be cheap! re-working can take a bit longer than building from new, but of course the experience and eventually expertise is priceless.Or not, if you don't want to build more aircraft, myself, I'll be building an airplane in my shop the day I die. ;D
 
Thank you members for your responses.
I found out today from the current owner that the aircraft is a Sonerai II not a Sonerai I.
Please forgive my mistake.
Raceair, the aircraft has the stripes but they are in red with the fuselage in white.
I have the skillset to re-tig weld chromoly tubing into the fuselage where necessary.
Your input into dimensions would be greatly appreciated.
Will I need to construct the appropriate fuselage jig to maintain integrity of the fuselage?
Bil438, I understand from your experience, the concerns that will be present with this aircraft.
Racegunz, the current owner is willing to let this aircraft go very cheaply, so for me it is worth it, even if it turns into scrap metal.
Members I do appreciate your thoughts, opinions and comments, keep them coming!
I will upload photos of the aircraft on Tuesday, for your further critique and/or suggestions.
Again, thank your for your further assistance.
 
Well, if the decision to buy is made, the first thing I'd do is compile two lists
1. What you need to fly
2. What parts you have with the project.
From that you can estimate material costs and possibly time to complete the project.
If you have not built before, I'd get someone local (possibly and A&P) who has to inspect what you have and give you an hinest assessment of what can be used, what must be repaired and what must be scrapped.
It would be very nice to have that before money changes hands.
In the case of Sonerai's especially, it is critical to build the aircraft exactly according to the plans and the builders manual. If you make changes they will affect it's ability to fly. Most probably you'll have to rebuild those parts from scratch just to complete the project. This is perhaps the most critical success factor.
After you have flown it for say 20 hours, you might have some sense of what the aircraft needs to fulful the mission you have for it and the way you need it to fly for you. Controlling the weight is also critical. My SII weighed 533 empty with the J2200 engine. Bill E
 
Hello everyone.
Here are some photos of the fuselage and some updates on original builder.
This is my Dropbox.com page, 38 photos in all.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/r1d5pbj91pv0nlh/AADQvVZ8n8rXyNZJtLbaEBsSa?dl=0
It was easier to do it this way than trying to upload my photos as they were too large.

Also the Sonerai is a model I and not a model II.

Bil438, I am documenting the items that you have suggested.
This will be a good amount of work .

Raceair/Ed, here is some interesting data!

Airframe Info

Manufacturer: Monnett
Model: Sonerai I Search all Monnett Sonerai I
Year built: 0000
Construction Number (C/N): 0399
Number of Seats: 1
Number of Engines: 1

Aircraft

Registration Number: N879E
Mode S (ICAO24) Code: AC1829
Certification Issued: 1989-09-13
Last Action Taken: 1995-09-20
Current Status: Deregistered
Registration Cancel Date: 1996-11-12

Owner

Registration Type: Individual
Address: Belleville, MI 48111
United States

And you were right about the colors also, some of the previous colors can be seen beneath the white paint on the fuselage.
If you find any of the parts that came from the aircraft, I would be interested in purchasing them.

The current owner has the main gear( you can see where they were cut in the photos), but no controls, instruments, fuel cell or wiring.
The fuselage also needs to be recovered, and the wings and tailfeathers/rudder repaired.
They put piano hinges on the fuselage to fold up the tail!
Like I said above, there is a good amount of work here.

I am looking forward to your opinions and insight as I will be making a very critical decision whether this Sonerai I will be my wings or not.
Thanks everyone!
 
After looking through those photos, I believe that is a project I would not want to take on. It truly looks as though it would be far less work to build new from scratch.

The wing spars have been destroyed, horizontal stab spar cut out and trying to put that fuselage back together would be a nightmare.

I scrapped a project I bought for far less issues and decided to build new and am very happy with my decision.

Bryan
 
This is the Bob O'Day Sonerai I was speaking of, and my friend Bob Schank was the last owner. I do have the control column from this aircraft. I have extensive experience in my career in the restoration of aircraft, so I see it from that perspective. This airframe could be a 'donor' of useable parts, and I would say that I would not call it a 'restoration', but if someone is doing this as a hobby, there is much that could be used in building up a Sonerai 1. I agree that almost every square inch of what is there needs work, but with imagination, I can see thru that… Many Sonerai 1 Builders would love to have that cowling, even tho it is modified. Canopy parts are useable. With wing Skins properly drilled off, wing ribs could be obtained. I have spliced fuselages similar to this.
Having said all that, Unless a person is familiar with the Sonerai 1 , that person should probably avoid getting involved, unless the mission is to just reclaim useable parts from this to build up a Sonerai…
If that project was in my shop right now, I could , in a couple weekends, dissect it enough to obtain many useable parts. However, Often times, the cost of transportation far exceeds the value of what is there. Where is this project currently located?…I frequently help people find homes for stuff such as this. There are too many useable pieces to just throw it in the dumpster, but it will take a dedicated person, with the Knowledge of the design, to turn portions of this project into something flyable….'MY' opinion only….....Ed
 
Ed is right,! LOTS of good stuff there, the canopy, cowling, gear, ailerons, lots of good stuff! :) as long as the price is right!
 
Hello everyone,
Thank you all for the responses.
I am at an impass right now with my decision whether to purchase this project and rebuild or just remove the usable parts.
This aircraft would be a great challenge.

Kevin r, I understand your point of view. I have been in some Grumman amphibians that were held together with prayers and duct tape.
Flight is always serious!

bhcishere, It is a great amount of work, I'm still undecided.

Raceair/ Ed, I am in Melbourne Beach, Florida. I work in Stuart, Florida.
The airport Iwill eventually use is Valkaria X59.
I would really like to live near you,seeing that you have experience with this airframe.
I will send you an email and if you have some time we could go over things in greater detail.
If there was an award for imagination I think I could be a finalist.

Racegunz, it seems a shame not to try and use what is there!

Thanks again everyone, I will update you as decisions are made.
Raceair/ Ed look for an email from [email protected] which I'll try to send later this evening.
 
Unfortunately that airplane died when it was deregistered and sold as a stage prop. With that said, I'd fix it. It might take more time and cost more money than starting from scratch, but that seems to be what I always do.
Wasn't there a Sport Aviation article on that airplane back in the day? It has Sonerai history for whatever that is worth, it definitely has an interesting story.
 
Yes, this was one of the very early Sonerais…. Joe, I do not remember any S.A. magazine article on this one. I believe the O'Day's also built a Sonerai 2 , (Father and Son)
If I didn't already have a Sonerai 1 Resto project, this project would not scare me away. I built up a flying Mong years ago from a tailcone and a set of stabilizers. If nothing else, many parts could provide a jump start for a new Sonerai 1 project…..
2flySonerai…..Yes, shoot me an e-mail, would be happy to talk to you about the possibilities….Ed
 
I will put out the disclaimer that I certainly am not a builder like many of the fine people on this great online community. That said, after having re-looked at your pictures, I think all the input given thus far is excellent. This is a serious hobby with clear and present dangers even with things being ideal. There are a lot of good parts on this plane, and to use every one, you'd still end up quite short of a functional plane without a great deal of fabrication. If it were me, and it was cheap enough, I would purchase it with the intention of using what is there in conjunction with a set of plans and building step by step as the plans say. When you get to a new section to build, see what you have and ask as many questions as it takes to be able to form a very educated decision as to whether this piece or that should be used, not just if it "could" be. The frame undergoes a lot of force, clearly. If the people who have been there, done that, suggest building a new one, your so far ahead of the average person because you have a cut frame you can look at so your plans are now 3-dimensional, if that makes sense.

Whatever you do, be safe, and don't read lightly the advice given here. There are those on here who have known pilots who went down with their Sonerai's and they don't want to hear you did the same. Stay safe, have fun, and keep all of us posted on what your up to.
 
Hello everyone,
I just want to say thank you all for your advice.
This very rough aircraft needs to be rebuilt just for the history of it alone.

Pete in Mi. , thanks for the positives and I fully understand the repercussions of not building correctly.
I worked for the company that owned Chalks airlines in the 80's and drove back and forth from Watson Island to St.Augustine to pick up parts for our aging fleet of Grummans.

Joe, I am on the same road you are!

Raceair/Ed, You are going to read a lot from me!

After evaluating all of the positives and negatives with this little bird, I have made a decision to make my friend an offer on it on Saturday.

I'm estimating about 800 hours of work to make an aircraft out of what is useable.

Again, thank you all for your advice and opinions, and please keep them coming.
I'll update the Sonerai I ownership status on Sunday.
 
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