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landing tips welcome

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Little Bear

Little Bear

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
16
Location
Dalmeny Sk. Canada
I purchased a Sonarai IIL about a month ago. With just under 1,000 hrs total time I seriously underestimated this little airplane. Perhaps because I have a couple of hundred hrs on a J-3 cub I thought flying this taildragger would be a snap. WrongO!! Today I made 4 attempts to land in a very light quartering wind, (not a factor). First 3 attempts were unsuccessful, due to porpoising, requiring a go around each time. I believe my problem was due to the fact that my airspeed indicator is in knots and I was approaching too hot. Any tips would be appreciated, as I really like this plane and intend to eliminate my lack of experience as soon as possible.
 
Speed and altitude control is very important if you want to make consistently good landings. I shoot for 90 mph on downwind, 80-85 mph on base, and 70-75 over the fence. You may want to temporarily mark your ASI with these speeds until you become familiar with your aircraft.

You may also want to calibrate your airspeed indicator with a water manometer and perform a leak test on the pitot system. You need to know that the ASI reads correctly!

Here is a link to an article describing the manometer test: http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/articles/KP89JUL.pdf

The leak test can be done by gently slipping a sealed rubber hose over the end of the pitot tube to gently pressurize the system to 80 mph. Be careful not to over-pressurize it as you can destroy the ASI. The ASI should hold 80 mph for several minutes.

-Scott
 
on downwind, my speed is 120mph, on base 100mph, on final 80mph.
My best landings are, when I slip the plane on final, like you see on the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0bUaoj_auE
On beginning final, I have about 1000ft above ground and if all is perfect, I hit the runway exactly on the beginning. When I fly the final without slipping, the glide ratio of my Sonerai is too high and I need less high altitude on beginning of our final (about 500-600ft above ground).
with best regards
Juergen
 
Scott's speeds work pretty well for me also. And like Juergen I also try to be high enough on final so that a slip is required - it helps with the forward visibility. If you haven't already done so you may wish to verify your stall speed and adjust the approach speed accordingly.

I've found that even a few mph - say five - crossing the fence makes a big difference in the length of runway consumed. Work on slowing it down.

Ed
2LS
 
welcome to the Sonerai pilot's club.

Speed control, learn your airplanes speeds at different weights and fly that speed. As previously said 5 knots difference is hundreds of feet of runway, and the faster you land the more you get to work the tailwheel. Good luck, with your experience in the cub you will get it soon.

Martin
61QC
 
Little Bear said:
Thanks' to all of you for your tips, much appreciated. I will be flying tomorrow and hopefully get a better handle on things.

Cal
Click to expand...

We need lots more information however, about this very cool little red and white plane!! Where did it come from? What kind of prop is that? What is the powerplant? What's your weight? Cruise? Climb? Who did this really cool paint job! Thanks, nosey Peter. 8)
 
Hi guy's,

This post is very ineresting to me. I'm still in "considering buying" mode. I'm trying to absorb all the info I can about the Sonerai before I commit. However, I want to be sure I'll like flying (landing)one. I've got lots of nose dragger time but currently fly a Taylorcraft-I do have a decent amount of tailwheel time. I feel very confident in it on landings. How will this translate to the Soneria? Is there anything other than a much more positive/senstitive control feel that I need to be aware of? Any input will be appreciated. Thanks!
 
Hi Peter, I don't have the log with me but I can give you the info that I have for memory. This plane was originally built back in 1984 I believe, by a guy named E.E. Hamilton, out of Medicine Hat Alberta. It was then sold to someone in Inisfill Alberta, who did some upgrades including the larger Skybolt canopy, the S-mods in the wings and the neat paint job. It was sold to an AME from Penhold Alta. He put almost 200 hrs on it. It now has close to 500 total. The engine is a Limbach 2000E single magneto. Prop is a warnke. Cruise is around 140 at 75% (3000 rpm) Climb is around 800 fpm, but I haven't verified that yet. I have two fuel tanks, standard 11 gal in front and 5 gal in back. (that's imperial gallons) The plane is a little heavy at 615 lbs but has a complete electrical system including the battery of course. Cal
 
The Warnke prop is a jewel. He was a Sonerai guy and had it all figured out. I lost mine several years ago, unfortunately. ::)
To answer the landing question, here's what works for me..
First, go up to 3000 and do a few approach to landing stalls. You'll feel a pronounced aerodynamic buffet 5 mph above the stall. Note the speed it occurs. Add 10 mph. That is your don't let it get slower than that final approach number. On mouser, the buffet starts at 67 so 67 plus 10 is 77. I use 80 as the magic number because I'm chicken, and it's easy to see at a glance. ;D
As mentioned above, a slipping approach or the old navy constant circle approach works well to keep the airport in sight until you get familiar with the airplane.
At about 10 feet above the runway, put it in the 3 point attitude, and *gently* hold it off. Look straight ahead, and pick up the runway edges with your peripheral vision. This is what was taught to military pilots, and works very well to keep you going straight down the runway in an airplane that you can't see forward from.
It will fly on to the runway in the 3 point position..
If you feel the stall warning buffet just as you start to touch, it's perfect. If you go into a full stall above the runway, the tailwheel will touch first, and that is also fine. A little too high at the full stall buffet, and you will bend the half inch gear.. ;)
That's about it. It sounds like you have it pretty much figured out already.
Oh, and congratulations!
 
Chuck,

Good point about getting the stall speed and adding 10.

You get a buffet at 67 mph? What's you're stall speed?

-Scott
 
I attended a tailwheel landing forum at Sun & Fun 2 years ago and the forum greatly helped me with landings.

I should say I agree with what the other owners have written. I hope to add some detail to that, while simplifying the technique.

So I am get to say 1000 agl ft before entering downwind. I turn downwind maybe a mile from the runway. When my the runway threshold is 45 degrees behind the wing, I turn base and begin to reduce power to be at say 700' agl when I turn final. I make my circuit turns at 95 mph. Why? Spins can occur in turns.

Fly the aircraft to align the aircraft with the runway centerline.

Next use the rudder to make the aircraft centerline parallel to the runway centerline. --- ___

Now use the ailerons to keep the aircraft on the runway centerline, which means you slip a little. This will create a little asymetric or aileron induced yaw.

Use the rudder to correct the yaw. In other words use yaw to keep the aircraft centerline and the runway centerline parallel.

As you will quickly see you are crossing the controls (with a left crosswind, using left aileron with some opposite rudder.) a little. The stronger the cross wind the more opposite rudder you'll use. (If you run out of rudder go around; if no opportunity appears to land goto another nearby airport.)NOTE: You always fly with full fuel for this reason.

I setup this slipping technique as soon as I turn final. Why? I do not want to have to switch from crabbing to slipping on short final. I want to use the same technique all the way down to the runway. I keep 80 mph on final. This is simple

I set my power (maybe 1300-1500 rpm) planning to touchdown say 100 feet after the threshold. Why? Occasionally there is windshear on short final and I want to go around while there is time.

On short final stop looking at the threshold and change your field of vision to the whole runway, i.e. look up a little. Use your field of view to ensure that you are not drifting sideways.

Flare in 2 steps.
Once over the runway, and say at 10 or 15 feet, round out the descent, so you are becoming level with the runway, as the glider pilots do. I have 1200 rpm at this point. I also want 75 mph.
Allow the aircraft to descend to say 2 feet.
Second: When you are just past the numbers, tracking straight and over the runway then begin to gently feel for the flare. Reduce power to idle. Let the airspeed reduce to 70 mph. Set your nose to give you a three point attitude. Don't allow it to drift. The aircraft will settle in nicely for you at the three point attitude.

If you watch the video of Juergen's landing, you'll see that he slips his aircraft along the final approach. I've sought to detail how that slip on final is done.

A word of advice, When I was learning to fly my Sonerai II, I was taught that it was OK to have 10 or more missed approaches in order to have one perfect landing. I still keep that advice close. I went around the last time I flew because the wind backed in a strong gust while flaring. You don't have to land on any particular approach. But you do need say an hour's fuel left to keep those extra approaches as choices.
Bill
SII LS
 
I might add that landing this plane, does keep you humble. I doubt that even after much practice I would be able to say landing the Sonerai is easy, as I will encounter situations going forward that will tax my skill level continually. Having you experienced sonerai pilots available on this website is a huge plus, as only someone who's been there can give this kind of advice.

Cal
 
Hi Bill,
on this video, the landing is not perfect, because on this landing I was too low and had end the slip about 100-200ft before the runway. On perfect landing, I end the slip 3ft above the runway on the beginning... but nobody is perfect ;)
with best regards
Juergen
(I have a new objective for my camera and will test it next days...
a other video with my old objective:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljX-cEj1Ivc )
 
Pete I really enjoyed your vids. I really started watching when the prop stopped. That got my attention. The sound of rushing air past the canopy and saving fuel while flying man that is a trip. I have never seen the inside of a motor glider before. Thanks for the whole experience. :eek:
 
Hey Little Bear,
The Sonerai is only the third taildagger I've flown and I've found the Sonerai a fairly easy transition.I spent quite some time just taxiing around to get a good feel for the proper landing attitude of the plane.I did several high speed runs to 40mph but rather than lift and lower the tail I took the advice that if I was going to fly the tail I might as well go fly the whole plane.So first time I brought the tail up was also my first take-off.My first landing was not near as difficult as I thought although I was quite fast coming over the fence.But with 6000 ft of runway I just held it off in ground effect untill it slowed down enough to get that right three point attitude I was now used to seeing during taxi.Once you hook the tailwheel and hold the stick all the way back the plane just seems to want to roll straight ahead.Tough for me was finding a comfortable final approach speed and one thing I did that really helped was to adjust my seat height as high as comfortably possible. I purchased a new headset with a low profile headband and this allowed me to add another inch to my seat and still leave a little room between my headset and the canopy and wow! I can't believe what a differerence adding that 1 inch of seat height made. Where I was flying final at 85 I can now slow down to 80 and have a clear picture of the runway as well as enhancing my peripheral vision during the flair. Throw in a little forward slip and can easily slow down more for a steeper and shorter approach.Hope this helps. Happy landings........FredL. :)
 
Hi Fred,
Thankyou for the feedback. I think I have found my problem, some of which you mentioned. I was flaring too high, probably due to the fact that my previous experience was in a J-3, that is much higher, (and slower) than the Sonerai. The other thing is flaring, unlike the J-3, the Sonerai will usually, if your approach speed is right, just fly itself on with little stick input required. As you mentioned it is really important that you know your attitude and height above the runway, using your peripheral vision, this was my biggest mistake early on.

Blue sky's Cal
 
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