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Learning to fly in a sonerai ii????

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Ls1swap

Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2020
Messages
12
I want to learn to fly and after doing some research, I have discovered one of the best ways in to do online ground school and then buy your own plane. Then train in that plane. This saves the money that would be spent on rentals and puts it into my own plane. I know my endgame is to own my own plane and the sonerai attracted me because of the economics. The one negative I am hearing on my plan is the sonerai may not be the best plane to learn in. The planes I have been looking at are all going to need some work so maybe I should convert it to a nosewheel? Little background I am an A&P, and comfortable working with anything mechanical. Thoughts???? Am I crazy?
Alan
 
Have you already identified your CFI? Is he willing to teach you in your experimental? Will you both fit in it? Will you be able to talk to each other? If you're "yes" on all of that maybe it will work but my advice is at least get started in a trainer before you buy an airplane. Not that the Sonerai is difficult to fly. It isn't, it's easy and fun to fly but you might come to realize that a plane like the Sonerai isn't your cup of tea, maybe you prefer low and slow or maybe you want more instruments. It would be better to get a little experience first. Just my thoughts. Good luck either way.

Ed
 
No no cfi as of yet, ideal would be to find a cfi who has a sonerai and is comfortable and knowledgeable in the plane but that is probably going to be hard to find. Where would I look for a list of cfi in my area. I was hoping to find one not associated with a flight school because I am sure they would want to use their planes no matter what.
 
I don't think training for hire is legal in an experimental is it? So your instructor has to be working for free, wink, wink.

If you start out in a trainer and find out flying just isn't what you thought sell your headset and done. Otherwise you'll be invested in an airplane.
 
The Sonerai II is not a good airplane to learn to fly in. It is a great airplane, and fun to fly, but it’s mission is not training. It’s too small. The best thing you can do is to buy a good used Cessna 150 or Piper Cherokee 140. There are lots of them for sale for around $20K. You can learn to fly for basically the cost of fuel, insurance, and maintenance, plus the instructor because when you’re done you’ll probably be able to sell the airplane for what you paid for it. If you want to learn in a taildragger, get a Cessna 120/140, or a Champ, or Citabria. You’ll be much more likely to find an instructor when you have a factory-built airplane. Plus, you’ll need a factory-built to fly your check ride.
 
It sounds like everyone is telling me what I was kind of telling myself in the back of my head. I did find this article in the eaa that shows how it could be done, but if you read between the lines they are saying it wouldn't be easy.
https://www.eaa.org/eaa/aircraft-bu...ion-in-an-experimental-amateur-built-aircraft
Oh well it was a thought..... Now I have to decide if I want to go 150 route or not. I don't think I want a certified aircraft because of the cost, or just rent the plane like everyone else does. I might still get a project sonerai to work on while I take lessons. If I finish it that will give me incetive to finish my ppl. Thanks for all the straight forward advise.
Alan
 
Not all Sonerais are created equal. Mine has a Jabiru 3300 engine at 127hp. It has both elevator trim and electric stabilizer trim since the elevator trim tab is so tiny. The engine is so light that I needed to move it forward which entailed a 10' longer cowling. That compromised longitudinal trim. In turn the vertical stab and rudder both needed to be enlarged. by say 30%. I had say 800 hours when I bought it but spent another 25 hours dual becoming proficient in the Sonerai II.
In your place I'd get the present owner to take you flying and let you have the controls and talk you through some air work. Mine is 2 fingers and 2 toes to fly it. At least you get some sense of what the term Sport Plane can mean.
Bill

I want to learn to fly and after doing some research, I have discovered one of the best ways in to do online ground school and then buy your own plane. Then train in that plane. This saves the money that would be spent on rentals and puts it into my own plane. I know my endgame is to own my own plane and the sonerai attracted me because of the economics. The one negative I am hearing on my plan is the sonerai may not be the best plane to learn in. The planes I have been looking at are all going to need some work so maybe I should convert it to a nosewheel? Little background I am an A&P, and comfortable working with anything mechanical. Thoughts???? Am I crazy?
Alan
 
Not all Sonerais are created equal. Mine has a Jabiru 3300 engine at 127hp. It has both elevator trim and electric stabilizer trim since the elevator trim tab is so tiny. The engine is so light that I needed to move it forward which entailed a 10' longer cowling. That compromised longitudinal trim. In turn the vertical stab and rudder both needed to be enlarged. by say 30%. I had say 800 hours when I bought it but spent another 25 hours dual becoming proficient in the Sonerai II.
In your place I'd get the present owner to take you flying and let you have the controls and talk you through some air work. Mine is 2 fingers and 2 toes to fly it. At least you get some sense of what the term Sport Plane can mean.
Bill
I’m having a hard time finding anyone to get dual time with.
Any suggestions on how to get dual time?
 
The Sonerai II is not a good airplane to learn to fly in. It is a great airplane, and fun to fly, but it’s mission is not training. It’s too small. The best thing you can do is to buy a good used Cessna 150 or Piper Cherokee 140. There are lots of them for sale for around $20K. You can learn to fly for basically the cost of fuel, insurance, and maintenance, plus the instructor because when you’re done you’ll probably be able to sell the airplane for what you paid for it. If you want to learn in a taildragger, get a Cessna 120/140, or a Champ, or Citabria. You’ll be much more likely to find an instructor when you have a factory-built airplane. Plus, you’ll need a factory-built to fly your check ride.
I agree with Fred. Too fast for learning. I am on the very journey outlined in a CYGNET SF2A flies like a Champ schools me in the Joys of VW aviation. I made an offer on NX237F and said I would send a deposit if I could line up 3 things within 10 days. By Day 8 I had a Hanger, Insurance and a willing informed CFI. The Cygnet is a Side by Side configuration good for training if not cozy. Fortunately the plane had good credentials some Lindy awards in the late 80's and a long history of regular flight and maintenance. Not all 2nd hand experimental have this. Insurance during Training is pricey ~$120/month possibly not availble at all. I have only one under writer willing regardless of agency. Cygnets change hands about 3x a year 8-16K, All "airworthy" on inspection condition as you pass $12K they have better build quality and history. I am on this list because after getting some time in the saddle I may switch to a sleeker faster Sonerai! :) I have only ever flow tail daggers so if experimental is your desire look into the Cygnet SF2A otherwise Fred's council for a CHAMP 120/140 make good sense if your can swing the insurance. With a Hombuilt pre qualify the buy with a willing CFI. If in SE Wisconsin PM me to make an introduction to explore a fit with one. I already have the examiner lined up too but they are even more rare. I think my plane's history helped with that. All the old guard at my airport know the specific plane when it arrived which was kinda a cool surprise.
 

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I don't think training for hire is legal in an experimental is it? So your instructor has to be working for free, wink, wink.

If you start out in a trainer and find out flying just isn't what you thought sell your headset and done. Otherwise you'll be invested in an airplane.
Training for hire is permited in the owners airplane only. This goes for club ownership as well as long as each club member "owns" a piece according the the clubs charter.
 
I agree with Fred. Too fast for learning. I am on the very journey outlined in a CYGNET SF2A flies like a Champ schools me in the Joys of VW aviation. I made an offer on NX237F and said I would send a deposit if I could line up 3 things within 10 days. By Day 8 I had a Hanger, Insurance and a willing informed CFI. The Cygnet is a Side by Side configuration good for training if not cozy. Fortunately the plane had good credentials some Lindy awards in the late 80's and a long history of regular flight and maintenance. Not all 2nd hand experimental have this. Insurance during Training is pricey ~$120/month possibly not availble at all. I have only one under writer willing regardless of agency. Cygnets change hands about 3x a year 8-16K, All "airworthy" on inspection condition as you pass $12K they have better build quality and history. I am on this list because after getting some time in the saddle I may switch to a sleeker faster Sonerai! :) I have only ever flow tail daggers so if experimental is your desire look into the Cygnet SF2A otherwise Fred's council for a CHAMP 120/140 make good sense if your can swing the insurance. With a Hombuilt pre qualify the buy with a willing CFI. If in SE Wisconsin PM me to make an introduction to explore a fit with one. I already have the examiner lined up too but they are even more rare. I think my plane's history helped with that. All the old guard at my airport know the specific plane when it arrived which was kinda a cool surprise.
Sent a pm I live in NW IL about 15 miles south of the line and 30 miles west of lake Michigan.
Alan
 
Some people build to fly, others build to build. If your mission is to fly, then learn to fly. Flying is similar to boating. You have to like doing it as a way to spend your time. So do that to see if you really want to spend time as a pilot and develop those skills. You go places and hangout and BS. Building is more like a hobby. You build because you want to touch what you have done, maybe show it off to others. You can buy a 150 on time. The money you save on rental will pay for your flight lessons. Like Fred said, you can then sell it for the cost. In the meantime, you can build whatever you want. They are not exclusive.
 
My worthless 2 pennies; If you start building and learning to fly at the same time you can have an airplane that is yours after you get your PPL. Just remember to get somebody else for the initial flight, new airplanes are tricky things. Also remember to follow everyone's recommendations for staying current in an acceptable transition plane. Training is the key to having a blast and being able to talk about it afterwards.
 
I was on the same path. And the answer is, "What Fred said!" You can build your Sonerai along the way. I did get one of the members here to take me out one day and I got almost 2 hours stick time and found the Sonerai to be an aircraft I would be happy in.
 
I plan to keep my eye out for one. I like the fact that they have a decent cruise speed, my thoughts are I would like to take it on 150 to 300 mile trips.
 
The weather turned bad one November and I needed it home for winter as it was tied down. So I trailed it behind my van from Cornwall, ON to Dorval QC. Normally an hour but trailing on backroads took 3 . The S2 would hunt above say 40 or 45 km/hr. The highway police order me off the divided highway.
I was actually able to detect significant fabric and paint deterioration after that trip. Hopefully never again. I'd rent or buy an enclosed trailer if ever again. . Bill E

Whats the farthest anyone has ever hauled a Sonerai on its own gear ?
 
Back in '83 on my first trip to OSH I went to John Monnet's Sonerai forum and asked him if the tri-gear was as towable as the tail wheel, and he said he had towed the tri-gear prototype to Sun n Fun and back on its gear.

Dave
 
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