Light Sport Legal Operations?

[rludtke]

Hi Folks,
I am new to the Sonerai.net community, but have been interested in the Sonerai II for a long while. Originally I didn't think the SII qualified for LSA operations by rule, as the landing speed was slightly to high. But reading some recent posts suggests that folks are operating the SII under LSA rules somehow.
This interests me greatly, as it would get me back into the air while I work on getting a medical variance in pursuit of the basic med requirements, which I anticipate could take a while.
Please clarify: Can the SII operate under LSA rules in its normal configuration, or does it require changes, such as gross weight limitation to meet the landing speed requirement, or, ??
Could I purchase an SII and immediately begin flying with no current medical?

Thanks,

 

[soneraii]

BasicMed is the way to go.

I'm operating under a recently obtained BasicMed. There is no such thing as a "BasicMed Variance".

BasicMed requires a very, very basic physical exam by a NON-AME, just a state license medical practitioner. If you Google basicmed you can see the doctors checklist of what he is going to check off. Generally speaking if you can safely drive a car and hold a drivers license you can fly under basicmed. Barring a few heart issues and mental disorders.

Kevin

 

[soneraii]

Furthermore ref. basicmed. If you run into a doctor that doesn't want to play ball take your money to another one. Point is there is no failing the physical here because there is nothing reported to the FAA except your doctor's state license number and that is only done by you when you successfully complete the physical and computer course. NOTHING is sent to the feds by your local general practitioner whether you pass or fail the exam or not! You walk out with the paperwork you brought in.

 

[soneraii]

In most cases the Sonerais will exceed the specified cruise speed of 120 kts. at max continuous thrust for light sport operations... I know that in some cases pilots have opted to "derate" their engines to technically limit the speed ref. above to less than 120kts.

kevin

 

[rludtke]

Furthermore ref. basicmed. If you run into a doctor that doesn't want to play ball take your money to another one. Point is there is no failing the physical here because there is nothing reported to the FAA except your doctor's state license number and that is only done by you when you successfully complete the physical and computer course. NOTHING is sent to the feds by your local general practitioner whether you pass or fail the exam or not! You walk out with the paperwork you brought in.

Thanks Kevin. But remember, you must have had a medical within the last 10 years. My last medical is older than that. so I require a (unfortunately I have forgotten the terminology) the equivalent of an FAA waiver to the medical requirements. I expect this process to take a while.

 

[soneraii]

My apologies. You are right about the 10 year clause. You will have to obtain a special issuance one time third class medical. Then after that go basic med.

Kevin

 

[Tom H]

I have heard others refer to a "10 year" clause, but I don't think that is the actual requirement. I just looked at the BasicMed requirements that I had stored, and it includes the following:

++++++++++
SECTION 2 – Information to be completed by the Airman
To operate an aircraft under BasicMed, you may only use this checklist to comply with 14 CFR 61.113(i) if you:
•
Hold or have held a valid first-, second-, or third-class medical certificate issued by the FAA at
any time after July 14, 2006; and
•
The most recent medical certificate held (including an authorization for a special issuance
certificate) must have not been denied, suspended, revoked, or withdrawn.
+++++++++++

My interpretation is that if the medical that you held expired any time after 7/14/06, then you meet the time requirements of Basic Med.

I don't see any other time-based requirement, unless the final issuance of BasicMed added one.

Tom H

 

[soneraii]

You must have held a valid FAA Medical Certificate in the last ten years...if not then you must acquire one i.e. a third class physical prior to going basicmed.

New student pilots must also initially acquire a third class medical and after it expires can go basicmed.

Kevin

 

[wbpace]

Welcome to the group, Rick, we love it when new folks join.

There does seem to be some confusion about the "ten year" thing. It is not a rule, per se. What the law (FAA Extension, Safety, Security Act of 2016) says is that you must have held a valid medical within 10 years of the date it was enacted. President Obama signed the law on July 15, 2016, so if you had a valid medical on July 15, 2006 or later, you can use BasicMed.

From a practical perspective, that means if you got your Third Class medical on or after July 1, 2004 (which would have expired on July 31, 2006), you can use Basic Med right now. That date will be as true 5 years from now as it is today, if you chose to wait that long before seeing your family doctor to renew via BasicMed. If your last medical preceded that date, you have to first pass your usual Third Class exam, then BasicMed will take over until the day they eventually plant you.

Depending upon your circumstances, it sounds like you need a "special issuance". I presume your AME has already discussed this with you, but for everyone else, that means for some of those special conditions, you can get your medical now, and Oklahoma will ask for additional information if they want it (ask me how I know). For a tiny subset (like heart and psychological issues, I think), your AME will not be able to approve you immediately and will send your file to Oklahoma for further review. But once you pass that and get approved, the BasicMed rule will take over from that point on.

O'Bill

 

[Pttim]

Back to the LSA requirement. I honestly don't think you can get a Sonerai 2 to land at 52mph. Mine stalls at 65mph & 900lb 625 empty weight. I've tried multiple approaches to get the landing speed down, and end up tail hooking at anything less than 65mph. Its less traumatic to just fly it over the numbers at 80-85 and let it sink to a smooth touchdown. For me anyway.

 

[Raceair]

Good points, Tim....I have never believed that any of the Sonerai models were Light sport as far as stall speed...

 

[Pttim]

Sonex might be a better choice, nearly the same performance minus the looks but better landing and stall speed with flaps.

 

[phzabriskie]

...Or Thatcher CX4.
http://www.thatchercx4.com/

 

[dcstrng]

I had originally thought to fly my Sonerai project in LSA; but it is a world of fact and fiction... I don't know about the Sonerai I, but I'm not aware of any of the Sonerai II's with a "listed" stall above LSA speeds (which must be clean, ability with flaps don't help). Notwithstanding, based on wing size the stall of even the lighter builds doesn't calculate at the 51mph speed with my weight factored in (ate up with corpulency ). But I wasn't worried about this since John had always listed the stall speed under that... and no more official Sonerai plans are likely to be forthcoming... My primary concern was speed at max-sustained-power, which for my engine was unlikely to be believable (was a 100hp Corvair -- which meant that my empty weight was gong to be closer to 700# than 520#), then along came the Carbon Cub and later the Just SuperSTOL with 180hp and it seemed to me that LSA compliance is whatever the builder says it is -- about the only thing that can be documented on the ground is the likely gross weight... Some have discussed Sonerai landing speeds, but since the AOA on the ground is below stall AOA (or so I've come to believe), the landing speed won't necessarily equate to actual stall... In any case, it is speculative now as my project went to a new home -- I think the LSA Sonerai is more substantiateble legal fiction than aerodynamic fact, but...

 

[rludtke]

-- I think the LSA Sonerai is more substantiateble legal fiction than aerodynamic fact, but...

To be honest, this is all I really care about- what can be reasonably qualified as an LSA from a paperwork perspective. Actual performance be damned. It seems to me that an un-calibrated pitot system could easily indicate 5 mph off or more at landing speeds, suggesting that the designer's published specifications would need to be accepted by the regulatory agency. I was wondering if anyone had successfully tried this before with the Sonerai II.

 

[soneraifred]

Quite honestly, there is no regulatory agency that really cares unless you crash it. First of all, you can only license the Sonerai as an experimental amateur-built. When it is licensed, the inspector doesn't care if you are going to fly it under the LSA rules or not. He only cares that it meets the 51% rule, and that all the paperwork is filled out properly. So, build it, license it, and go fly it as a Light Sport. Who's going to know the difference? Only you will.

 

[subnoize1]

Quite honestly, there is no regulatory agency that really cares unless you crash it....

Or, as the insurance agent told me, "In the event of an accident and if the aircraft is beyond the pilots ratings and/or certificate then we have no obligation or liability."

The exact wording was a big longer so check with your agent. Your life insurance policy almost certainly will not pay either. I think they call that the "Stooooopid Clause."

 

[Pttim]

Which is what Fred said! Unless you wad it up!

 

[rpayne]

On the sonex web , they say the stall speed for the sonerai is 45 and you limit top speed by a limit on rpm that makes a sonerai a lsa airplane.

 

[scootjam]

I did ask Sonex if the Sonerai qualified as an LSA and they said no. Im just going to get basicMed to keep it simple.