New to flight, New to Sonerai, New to building, New to forum

[iskyfly]

Greetings, fellow Sonerainians? (Is that the correct term?)

I have recently acquired a Sonerai 2LS project and though I am excited and anxious to get to work on it, I am WAY behind the learning curve. A little background, and then some questions seeking input...

Current completed work: The fuselage welding is completed by original builder (though I believe I need to replace the tail wheel spring tube and wing fold tube with a larger dimension, because they are only 5/8" and the plans seems to call for 3/4"). Turtle deck height is higher than standard by 3", I think. The fuselage was painted with off-the-shelf primer to temporarily inhibit rust. All tail pieces and control mechanisms have been fashioned. All the work looks very good and the welded fuselage was already inspected and approved by a technical counselor. Wing spars and ribs were already made up and the ribs attached to the right spars. I have the ribs for the left wing attached with clecos, waiting to rivet. Wing jib is already made and ready to receive wings for covering when the time comes. I have the original plans, Fred's wing manual, most original receipts, and even the Sonerai to Sonex book (interesting read)!

Question 1: I am planning on cutting off the tail wheel spring tube and wing fold tube and replacing with 3/4" tube. Being a new welder, is there anything I need to pay special attention to here?

Question 2: I am planning on sand blasting and Scotch Brite scrubbing the entire fuselage and other control surfaces/mechanisms and then priming with Zinc Phosphate primer that I purchased from Wicks recently. Is there any other special treatment I need to do before priming? Is this the right time to prime, or am I ahead of myself?

Question 3a: I made an initial attempt to hang the right wing on the wing jib, but the 2" pipe was way too tight in the lightening holes and I stopped after just 3 ribs. Is enlargening those holes the right thing to do and, if so, what's the best way to do that? (And how loose should they be?) I don't see these answers in the wing manual, unless I missed something.

Question 3b: Do you really dip each rivet in Zinc Chromate or Zinc Phosphate primer before riveting? (And do I need to prime the ribs and spars [sounds like a BBQ] after everything is fastened and before skins go on?)

Question 4: I'd like to install the turtle deck skin and landing gear after the fuselage is primed. I've poured over the plans several times and I cannot find anywhere that it mentions the dimensions to cut the turtle deck skin. Am I missing something? Also, can I use two sheets of the Alclad 2024-T3 that I have left over and just rivet them together? (Is there a concern about strength here, or does it just hold the fabric off the frame?) Regarding the landing gear, can I not just square the gear to be perpendicular to the fuselage, or do I need to consider something else here? I'm thinking cowling after turtle deck skin and landing gear installation.

Question 5: I just received the Alclad for the wing skins from Wicks. When I unrolled them yesterday, I found some very slight dents in a couple of places (not sure if it happened in shipping or when). Do I need to be worried about this?

You'll probably notice from my questions that I am a TOTAL novice when it comes to this project. I've done so many other things in life (plumbing, electrical, construction, car repairs, computer work) and I'm careful/detailed in my work, so I thought I could figure this out, too, but I am struggling. I've read the plans several times, scoured a few different sites, and joined a local EAA chapter, so I'll get it all figured out in time, but any advice that anyone is willing to give would be helpful. And if I've missed some obvious resource to figure it out on my own, a gentle nudge that way would be welcomed. (Okay, so I haven't ordered the back issues of the newsletter YET, but that's next.)

Thanks and cheers,
George ("iskyfly" guy)

 

[iskyfly]

Ok, so I forgot to include this question in my original post: What are the dimensions for the wing walk support pieces on the left wing? One thing I didn't get with my project is some of the layout sheets.
Thanks!

 

[iskyfly]

Is anyone willing to comment on even one of these questions? Please help!

 

[Chucker]

Welcome Aboard George!

If it makes your decision making any easier, I am the current caretaker of a Sonerai IILTS built over 20 years ago by Dave Wilcox. The insides of the wings are bare aluminum....no primer, no paint, only the protection provided by Alclad by design. There is no visible corrosion whatsoever. Bear in mind that the airplane was built and operated in Phoenix. Your mileage may differ. The amount of corrosion protection you provide is up to you and the amount necessary is up to mother nature. If you are planning for the worst case scenario, then everything you mentioned is recommended....including dipping your rivets. If your bird will be protected from the elements, then Alclad can do the job...as evidenced by N136DE.

The only downside to a two-piece turtle deck (in my opinion) is purely cosmetic...the little ridge where the two pieces overlap. The dimensions for the turtle deck are not provided. Cut to taste. The changes to the height will effect the skin. You will get a line in your covering at the bottom edge of your skin. Where would you like that line to be? Measure and cut your skin to put the line where you like. All that skin does is smooth the flow behind the canopy...oh, yeah....it also helps protect against some clown leaning on the turtle deck and poking a hole in fabric.

Priming the pieces as you go is not a bad approach. However, when you realize that you forgot a mounting tab for your thingamajig then you will need to re-prime the affected area. I took another course. My other Sonerai was a project similar to yours....90% done, 90% to go. It had been primed and painted. Much of that paint has since succumbed to my torch. My scheme is to finish the build without painting, let my EAA advisor point out the errors, repair the errors to his liking, then tear the machine apart for covering and painting. That said, I live in Arizona and am not worried about finding a rust bucket in the middle of my workshop. Again, mother nature has her say.

As for the tailwheel tube, you need the correct size to accept and support the standard Sonerai tailwheel spring. If you are building a nose-dragger, the smaller tube will probably do a fine job of holding the skid.

As for the wing skins....little dents will have little effect. Big dents will have big effect. Unless you are an aeronautical engineer, who knows exactly what will happen. I doubt you'll find anyone to put a number on it. I am not qualified to say but my feeling is that any dent that you can tolerate cosmetically is not going to create a change in aerodynamics detectable from the cockpit. After all, this is "experimental aviation." You are the field engineer, mechanic, and test pilot.

I would open up the lightening holes enough to get the ribs where they need to be.

I have not built a wing walk....can't help you there.

Just keep reading, asking specific questions as you go, and enjoying the ride. The plans look like greek to everyone in the beginning. You can only eat this elephant one bite at a time. Don't worry about the trunk when you are chewing on the tail....we'll still be here when you get to that part.

Welcome to the party. Have fun!

Chucker

 

[spankyscub1]

Welcome here George!

Be careful sandblasting if you don't have experience. Test on some scrap as high air pressure and coarse sand can be damaging to the tubes.

Small dents aren't a showstopper as long as there no creases along the edge or bottom of the dent, those can be cause for rejection. Minor dents just fill unless you're going for a polished airplane in that case the skin can be used for smaller parts.
Hank

 

[iskyfly]

This input is extremely helpful for this novice! I feel like I can plow ahead and get some things done now. Thank you, thank you, thank you! I look forward to joining the ranks of the flying Sonerai pilots someday in the not-so-distant future hopefully.

Best to you all,
George

 

[iskyfly]

Does anyone happen to have the dimensions for the bulkheads and stiffeners for the wing walk for a 2LS? I don't see any dimensions on page S-20 of the plans and don't have the layout sheet FT-22.
Thanks!

 

[Serp]

Welcome here George!

Be careful sandblasting if you don't have experience. Test on some scrap as high air pressure and coarse sand can be damaging to the tubes.

Small dents aren't a showstopper as long as there no creases along the edge or bottom of the dent, those can be cause for rejection. Minor dents just fill unless you're going for a polished airplane in that case the skin can be used for smaller parts.
Hank

Hello George and welcome, just wanted to let you know to use glass bead on your fuselage it wont damage the tubes, that's what I did and it worked perfect. Don't use sand. Good luck, Angelo.

 

[Elviar]

Welcome George!

As far as the wing walk supports go, I think they are pretty much dictated by the dimensions of your wing ribs. Size them to fit. I'm building a tri-gear, with the step in front of the wing, so I've included supports ahead of the main spar. I don't know if it's been done before, but I thought it was a good idea. A tip I got from Fred is to use an .025 cover sheet over the supports to tie the supports together and add extra strength under the wing skin. I'll attach a couple of pictures. They're not the best, but I hope this helps.

 

[iskyfly]

Hello George and welcome, just wanted to let you know to use glass bead on your fuselage it wont damage the tubes, that's what I did and it worked perfect. Don't use sand. Good luck, Angelo.

Thanks for that advice! I hope to do the sandblasting on the fuselage in the early spring. Working on skinning the wings now. It's slow going, but I'm making progress!

 

[iskyfly]

Welcome George!

As far as the wing walk supports go, I think they are pretty much dictated by the dimensions of your wing ribs. Size them to fit. I'm building a tri-gear, with the step in front of the wing, so I've included supports ahead of the main spar. I don't know if it's been done before, but I thought it was a good idea. A tip I got from Fred is to use an .025 cover sheet over the supports to tie the supports together and add extra strength under the wing skin. I'll attach a couple of pictures. They're not the best, but I hope this helps.

Thanks for your reply! I did get the wing walk supports made, and the idea of putting an extra cover sheet over the wing walk is a good idea... I may just go ahead an add that. Cheers!